aj... I have absolutely nothing to gain by promoting Salute. I just stated what I have experienced and what I have seen. I will agree that all his calves are not great ones, but show me a bull who has all great ones. Salute is probably not the best bull around, but he certainly isn't the second coming of Satan either. The sire always gets blamed for a mediocre calf, and I guess that will never change. I do not know if he is a real clubby sire, as I have not seen any Salute steers myself. One of the Salute bulls I have sold, is working on a set of commercial cows, and he is siring some pretty good calves and I expect some of them will see a show ring.
As for the 15 full brothers that sold for $20,000, I assume that you are directing that directly at me. As I have told you before, there were 4 full brothers. Three sold and one died before weaning. The 3 all sold for more than $3000 with one selling for $20,000.... and yes there are 8 cattlemen who paid this for this bull, and one of them happens to be a commercial man who runs over 900 cows. I doubt if he will ever use him as he does not AI, however, he really liked the bull, and thought he could have a little fun from being a part of him. I do not know what your issue is with 8 guys each throwing $2500 in, to purchase a bull for $20,000. If 8 guys through $2500 in to buy a second hand pick up truck, would that make any more sense? It is not a big deal. Deals like this happen occasionally at sales all over. I had no idea that this bull would bring this amount, and I had little to with it taking place. I did retain an interest in the bull, as I wanted to use him in my herd, and in ET, and I had said in the sale catalog that I was retaining a 1/3 interest for semen use in my herd only. At the sale, I announced that if a group were to purchase the bull, I would not keep a 1/3 interest, but would keep an equal interest with the other owners. That is what happened. After the sale was done, I had to write a cheque for $2500 just like all the other buyers, and I had to pay sale commission on the entire price, just like everyone else. I don't know what the big deal is???? Right now, I think if you were to ask these owners if they would do it again, they would do it in a heart beat. The calves are looking good, the bull has continued to develop even beyond everyone's expectations. Everyone seems very happy.... except you for some reason.
I have been involved in a few syndicated bulls. In 1972, 10 Saskatchewan breeders went together to purchase a bull named Four Point Major for $10,000 in the Rothbury dispersal. He was 10 years old when we purchased him. Every person who purchased this bull made money, and we are still making money from him. Personally, I sold over 100 vials of semen from him in the last year at $30 each, so I am still getting a pretty good return on my $1000 investment. The very next year, in 1973, 5 Saskatchewan breeders ( i was not one of them) purchased Crestdale Super Flag 14G at the Regina Bull Sale for $41,500. There were numerous breeders still in the bidding at $25,000... on their own, and there were still 4 people bidding at $30,000, of which 3 were breeders who raised other breeds of cattle. From $32,000 to $41,500, it was between this group of breeders and Beartooth Ranch in Montana ( who were a Polled Hereford outfit at the time). I remember a Regina Bull Sale in the mid 70s where there were 6 bulls that sold for more than $40,000 with one selling for $90,000... again, it was all real money. So... what is the big deal about a group of guys deciding they will pool their money to make sure they can be a part of a bull at $20,000?
As far as birth EPDs, I really do not accept any of the numbers until they get a few more years on them. They seen to be a real mess since they changed to Colorado state doing the data. I do not understand what is going on, and I have heard the same rumors as you have.... but then I have heard rumors about the EPDs of some bulls and some herds, ever since EPDs can into existence. I take them as just that... rumors.
