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Offline spkauffmann

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SAV Resource 1441
« on: December 24, 2016, 02:07:08 PM »
Has anyone used SAV RESOURCE 1441, thoughts and comments about him. What are his calves like?

Offline Airgator

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2016, 09:28:25 PM »
Resource has a lot of eye appeal but his epd for Maternal Calving ease is either -8 or -9.  The breed average is +8.  His calving ease epd is -4 with the breed average +6.
That being said he was ranked 7th in registrations for the Angus breed in 2016.  I think he was 14th in 2015.  If I were using him I would mate him to a Sav Bismarck or a Connealy Confidence daughter with a high CEM epd.  He is going to add eye appeal.  I just wouldn't want to have a bunch of heifers having trouble calving.  If you are using him for steers it won't matter. 

Offline cowboy_nyk

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2016, 11:27:36 AM »
We have used him extensively.  My parents have had about 100 Resource calves now and to my knowledge none have been assisted.  BW would avg 90lbs (never had one get to 100lbs) up here in MB, Canada.  Daughters are calving now and have fantastic udders and are great mommas.  Resource will consistently improve feet and hoof structure, scrotal, docility, fleshing ability, muscling, and fleshing ability.  His calves have impressive performance to weaning and yearling weight but slow down after that and are moderate as mature animals (size 5-6 frame).  His bull calves typically have slick hair coats.  Heifers seem better that way with more than adequate hair.  Not many Resource calves have the "show look".  He does mate well with Bismarck daughter but I'd be cautious with them getting to the point of too much milk with that pairing.

Offline Airgator

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2016, 07:26:07 PM »
Cowboy,
Thanks for the feedback.  I loved the eye appeal of Resource but was scared of the maternal calving ease epd.  Are there any other bulls you like?
Thanks again.

Offline cowboy_nyk

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 02:46:14 PM »
I guess that would depend on what you goals are.  If you're looking for performance and EPD's I've seen quite a few calves from the MOGCK Bullseye bull that I like. https://www.accelgen.com/catalog/semen-beef/014an00399/english/mogck-bullseye/  Not sure he's a "show ring" bull but they still look pretty good to me.  Deep, thick, hairy and grow well with respectable calving ease for a growth bull. Even his sons seem to be breeding pretty well.  We Ai'd to a son and I bought a son and used him last year. If SAV is your thing, SAV International seems to be breeding pretty consistently. His calves have performed quite well in both commercial and show ring settings up here.

Offline Airgator

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2016, 09:06:27 PM »
Thanks, Cowboy,
Do you all breed to any Connealy bulls?   I haven't heard much of International.  Thanks for the info.

I saw a really nice Resource son in a sale catalog for Gretsch Angus.  Lot 1.
http://www.angusjournal.com/salebooks/gretsch010717/#page/5


Offline cowboy_nyk

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2016, 08:54:18 AM »
That is a pretty good looking bull.  I've got a yearling Resource son that I used heavily last year, picture below.  His Dam is a HF Kodiak 5R daughter (Canadian bull).

Next pic is my Bullseye son.

I haven't used a bunch of Connealy bulls.  We did use Connealy Imprint heavily one year.  Calves grew well and were deep bodied and hairy.  Feet were so-so and not an udder improver by any means.  Last 2 pics are imprint progeny.

Offline GoWyo

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2016, 01:25:48 PM »
I saw some SAV Recharge daughters this fall that were pretty decent both from growth and performance and eye appeal perspectives.  Recharge is a full sib to Resource, but seems to throw them a little smoother fronted with a bit more extension.
May you always have cows around . . . ~ Corb Lund

Stop the violins -- visualize whirled peas

Offline Airgator

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2016, 09:53:55 PM »
I actually hadn't heard of Imprint before. I heard of Kodiak and his full brother.
Your bull is really nice and the Imprint calves look good.  I think a Connealy bull that is getting attention is Connealy Countdown. Your program is impressive. 

Offline cowboy_nyk

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2017, 08:41:37 AM »
Thanks Airgator.

The Resource Full Sib that is gaining momentum up here is SAV Renown.  Same as you say about Recharge - supposed to be cleaner fronted, more extension.  Personally I prefer the Resource look to the longer fronted types.  The longer the neck, the deeper the feed bunk. (pop)

Countdown looks like a useful bull.  Definitely what I would call a heifer bull vs a growth bull.

Offline Airgator

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2017, 09:48:23 PM »
I still don't understand how his -9 CEM isn't a problem.  You would think that his daughters would be train wrecks calving as heifers.  How can his number be so extreme and yet he is so popular?  I kept looking at Renown and Resource and I would go for Resource.   Brings you back to the idea that Angus is popular because the breed doesn't have problems calving so is the CEM epd meaningful.
I ask that because you have someone calving out a bunch of his heifers and there are no problems.  You want to use epds as a tool to make low maintenance, sleep at night cattle.  (Partnered with functional conformation....cattle that are able to walk and won't attack you in a pen).  Just puzzled by that CEM epd.  I don't see how Resource can be 7th in the country for number of purebred calves registered if his daughters have problems calving as heifers.

Offline cowboy_nyk

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2017, 08:46:12 AM »
I think where you could run into trouble with Resource is when you mix in any narrow-pelvis, straight calving ease bloodlines.  Those daughters could potentially be a problem if the inherit the bone structure of the calving ease side and the bone mass of Resource.  As for us, we essentially never use a negative BW epd or double digit calving ease bull.  We typically use slightly larger (compared to USA) cattle with a bit more bone and frame because that is what performs better in our environment. All that being said, proof is in the pudding.  EPDS are a guide but I'll believe my eyes first and foremost.  If I have issues, you'll be the first to know.

Offline Airgator

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2017, 10:59:56 PM »
Cowboy,
I truly appreciate your first-hand experience. I like larger animals myself.  I used to have fullblood Fleckviehs...including one from the Klondike herd in Canada.  The bulls just don't work for a number of reasons.  Now, another question for you.  You have a bull with a +20 for CED, -3 BW epd and he's +21 for CEM.  Do the daughters have enormous pelvic areas that allow them to calve easier or is it that the calves are so small because of extremely low birthweights....probably between 50 and 60 pounds? So, just to ponder something...say I had embryos from a larger breed implanted in that heifer that weighed 50 pounds...Is she going to be able to calve a 90 pound plus bull from genetics with higher BW because of her CEM epd?  Thanks.

Offline Markspurebreds

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2017, 02:37:57 AM »
in my opinion, it has been the Associations strong stance towards the promotion of low BW and CE within the Black Angus breed towards the commercial cattleman that has in return caused birthing problems in the future.  Everyone likes to have sleep all night CE with low BW, but we can ultimately breed out some of the pelvic area of our females.  Heifers should be able to have an 80# calf without problems.  I have seen more issues lately with the 50# calves then I have ever seen with an 85-90.  One must also take into account when you calve and where you are located.  We calve in Jan and Feb and our Iowa winters can be very tough on a little calf.   

Offline cowboy_nyk

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Re: SAV Resource 1441
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2017, 09:27:17 AM »
Airgator - without measuring pelvic areas (which I have never done) you'll never know for sure. I'd guess it has more to do with the bw and being finer boned but smaller, finer heifer tend towards smaller pelvic areas over the long term.  I am pretty confident in saying that the hfr you describe would not be a good candidate for a larger BW embryo calf.  If it was her own she'd at least have an influence in making it a finer boned calf.

I 100% agree with Markspurebreds.  The never ending push for greater calving ease is seriously hurting the commercial cattleman.  There's no reason in the world that a cow can't easily have a 90lb Resource calf.  His numbers look extreme because of the proliferation of 50-60 lb bw type bulls.  In my opinion those are not desirable or economical.  Good grown out heifers will easily have an 80lb calf and frailer types should easily have a 70lb calf.  Anything less and you are giving away performance for nothing. And in -40 degree weather a 50lb calf struggles to survive, let alone thrive, at my house.

Last thing - pic below of a few day old resource calf (from 2015).  The have bone and a squarer type head.  His mom isn't a huge cow by any means and he was 94 lbs.  Never saw him born.  She had him between checks overnight and he was sucking when i checked.

 

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