sept troubadour bull pic to cut him or to not him that is the???opinions wantd

what do you all think should i cut him for a steer or leave him a bull he is out of a goldmine(simmy)/heatseeker cow that is my best looking cow also. Heifers out of him should make tremdous females if i leave him bull also. everybody opinions welcomed

If he is super sound (seen some awful straight Troubadour's, not bashing it takes two to tango), I like him more as a bull. I would test him for TH and keep leaning towards keeping him a bull if he is clean. I just don't know if he has that perfect shoulder and front end for a steer...Love the bone and stoutness, he could make some cool females...I really like him, especially if he is sound, so many of these char x calves in Texas are pitiful on the move.  (thumbsup)

Nice caf if hes clean hed make a decent bull if he isnt id cut him. Good luck either way

What was his BW? I don't think he would be a top competitor as a steer, but as a maternal herd bull he would be great.  He's a little bit on the higher side of frame with the simmi, JMO.  He should work great with a few TH club calf females.  Best of luck!!

he should be clean the cow is clean. He moves like cat as of  right now. bw 85#  frame wise i would like to see him maybe a notch bigger for a bull  he is the one of the smaller framed calves we had this fall thats why he has that body and power  Thanks for your thoughts i appreciate all of them

Well him being a Troubadour he ought to be sound as a cat.........cause thats one of Troubadours greatest trait is soundest..........Id keep him a bull and breed the farm to him all except his mother and see what his calves turn out to be then you can sale him or breed him again

RankeCattleCo said:

What was his BW? I don't think he would be a top competitor as a steer, but as a maternal herd bull he would be great.  He's a little bit on the higher side of frame with the simmi, JMO.  He should work great with a few TH club calf females.  Best of luck!!

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If he is not good enough for a steer, keep him a bull? Is that not the opposite for a sound breeding piece. Usually if they do not make the cut for a bull you steer him. If you need a good bull leave him. If you are leaning toward selling him as either a bull or steer, what would make you more money?

WJ Farms said:

Well him being a Troubadour he ought to be sound as a cat.........cause thats one of Troubadours greatest trait is soundest..........Id keep him a bull and breed the farm to him all except his mother and see what his calves turn out to be then you can sale him or breed him again

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the best breeding decision one can make is breeding a young sire back to his mother-- shows his neg faults, that are usually hidden..

If you are happy with:his size, his structure and BW-how much do you like his mother-she would an important part of the equation to me-If hes good,and shes good (musta been from the way he looks)then hed make a bull. O0

Not the greatest pictures to judge his structure but like the looks and where you like his mother a lot ,he could sire you some very functional females and the smoke females are really getting popular ...This steer deal is getting so competitive that if your not using a donor cow suited for it you had better try something else ....

WJ Farms said:

Well him being a Troubadour he ought to be sound as a cat.........cause thats one of Troubadours greatest trait is soundest..........Id keep him a bull and breed the farm to him all except his mother and see what his calves turn out to be then you can sale him or breed him again

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Proves everyone has different experiences with the same bulls, thanks for posting your experience.

frostback said:

RankeCattleCo said:

What was his BW? I don't think he would be a top competitor as a steer, but as a maternal herd bull he would be great.  He's a little bit on the higher side of frame with the simmi, JMO.  He should work great with a few TH club calf females.  Best of luck!!

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If he is not good enough for a steer, keep him a bull? Is that not the opposite for a sound breeding piece. Usually if they do not make the cut for a bull you steer him. If you need a good bull leave him. If you are leaning toward selling him as either a bull or steer, what would make you more money?

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Not trying to offend, but it is very true some (maybe most) good bulls would be average steers. Steers are so chubby right now, it would be hard for a bull with these genetics to ever be small enough framed. However, you use this same bull on moderate Angus or more clubby bred females, I would go and look at the offspring...Trying to say that steers of any era are freaks that fit a small window. I would hate to see this person cut this clean bull and finish in the middle of a class and always wonder if he/she would have saved him/herself 5k by not having to buy a cleanup bull.

Exactly... and he's not sired by Heat Wave. Or Monopoly. So if you're not in Texas, or even if you are some times... good luck...

What is your opinion on the goldmine females? Does he make them consistently good? How are his bull calves?

Looks like he will make a very good bull !

WJ Farms said:

Hey BS does he look straight in his stifle??? or is that just me??

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IMO- yes...  but I can't blow the pictures up large enough- and don't want to go through the saving process-- just to be able to better see his skeltal makeup and try to figure out his angles. 

To keep it short-- when you look at his position of hind leg- in both pictures-- and where it is stuck-- it's almost straight-- that to me, says he can't stride much further forward-- which could give him a chopped off stride... 

But not trying to hijack a thread or anything.... 

If you are questioning yourself if you want to keep him a bull or make him a steer then you should just go ahead and cut him.  If you think he is going to make a good herd bull then he should make an excellent steer.  I would leave him a bull for a little bit longer then cut him. This should make him have more muscle than fat when he is finished. It will give him a fresher appearance as well.

Sassy2899 said:

If you are questioning yourself if you want to keep him a bull or make him a steer then you should just go ahead and cut him.  If you think he is going to make a good herd bull then he should make an excellent steer. 

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Sassy-
say you raised I-80 or another Maternal Bull.  Would you cut him then? How do you think I-80 would've done as a steer? 95% of the time you're right, but in the case of a more matournal looking one, as in this case, that's almost never true.

Cut the BS said:

Sassy2899 said:

If you are questioning yourself if you want to keep him a bull or make him a steer then you should just go ahead and cut him.  If you think he is going to make a good herd bull then he should make an excellent steer. 

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Hmm, Maybe time for a little Devil's advocate.   I wonder how many times a potential good or great sire has been steered because of this thought.  Especially historically when the pendulum begins to swing from short to tall, and back.  I'm not saying anything about this particular calf, or even this time in the show calf industry, just a thought.  When Sugar Ray was a calf, many people thought he should have been steered because he wasn't big enough.  I remember looking at some Sugar Ray x Amerifax heifers and thinking about breeding them to Black Power Play.  The owner said the calves wouldn't get tall enough. (lol)

PDJ said:

Cut the BS said:

Sassy2899 said:

If you are questioning yourself if you want to keep him a bull or make him a steer then you should just go ahead and cut him.  If you think he is going to make a good herd bull then he should make an excellent steer. 

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x2

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Hmm, Maybe time for a little Devil's advocate.   I wonder how many times a potential good or great sire has been steered because of this thought.  Especially historically when the pendulum begins to swing from short to tall, and back.  I'm not saying anything about this particular calf, or even this time in the show calf industry, just a thought.  When Sugar Ray was a calf, many people thought he should have been steered because he wasn't big enough.  I remember looking at some Sugar Ray x Amerifax heifers and thinking about breeding them to Black Power Play.  The owner said the calves wouldn't get tall enough. (lol)

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all the time... 

right now, i'm searching for a double clean shorthorn bull to sire steers-0- that preferably goes back to double stuff, or d vision...  It has been a tough struggle to find one clean one way- let alone two.  I have not found one yet, that has this breeding combo-- in conjunction with some other clubbier type shorthorn pedigree...

I Know that over the years, all the clean ones were cut-- b/c they weren't stout enough, or had enough hair...  I just know it.. instead of keeping the 2nd or 3rd best- who would have been number 1 clean-- they did away with all of them..