Shorthorn

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RyanChandler

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-You have 100 average grade cows .

-All the calves will be sold on the grid. If profit is your concern-

Q) What shorthorn bull do you use?

Q) Is scan data the determinant? Id like to hear some explanations as well, not just bull x or y.  What are the factors that determine your decision?
 

shortyjock89

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I'd use my own bull. They grow fast up to 1 year, and he adds more thickness and fleshing ability than any bull we've used. He also is the most consistent. There are probably better bulls for this, but I love ours.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Olson Family Shorthorns said:
I'd use my own bull. They grow fast up to 1 year, and he adds more thickness and fleshing ability than any bull we've used. He also is the most consistent. There are probably better bulls for this, but I love ours. /// I liked the hifer pics of your bull-did you put them in a sale? If you have x bred calves out of him-you might show some pictures O0
 

mark tenenbaum

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2: Capt Obvious,and Mav Bayou Capts sons scanned way high-hes proven CE-and the right size for x-bred Angus stuff Bayou is calving ease and scanned way up there himself:ditto on a strong early grow cycle 3rd:Olsons bull-after I see some calves-a little higher BWS-but a really good bull:made similar to Bayou. O0
 

RyanChandler

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I would expect some bw with terminal type calves.  Per the criteria, it should be a scale pounder that doesn't give up much in terms of grade.  <95lb bw.
 

shortyjock89

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His BW EPD may be a little high, but he really isn't a hard calver or have really big calves at all.  We didn't assist any out of him this year.

This is the June (really a June) ShorthornPlus heifer we have in the Illinois Beef Expo Sale, and then a pic of my sister's PB show heifer. Both taken today after being roughed out.

A guy who owns a sale barn and a butcher shop bought a Red Diamond bull from us, and says the calves from him are the best feeding and most consistent calves he's had, especially out of a purebred bull. We don't keep many bulls, but the reports we have gotten back on the few sons we've sold of RD are all very positive.
 

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aj

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We as a breed don't really have a stamped in gold carcass bull. We don't have the data. We don't have like a lancer 442 abs bull with thousands of progency that have been evaluated. Its a problem. To me the niche would have to be the maternal strength's of the breed. Hopefully we can id a "marbling" bull or cutability bull in the future.
 

aj

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Or we need to promote the tenderness factor in locker beef somehow. The present day system doesn't reward tenderness it rewards marbling.
 

Okotoks

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What about WAUKARU PATENT 8161 ET x4144656, he has some pretty impressive growth numbers as do a few other Waukaru bulls. I think they would really work if it's Angus based cows.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Waukaru Patent is great like fantasy football-the problem is that mere mortals-like small breeders and commercial people arent part of the syndication trading society:and are in no posistion to pay $2500-5000 for syndicate membership-to breed some commercials-or 5-10 cows.Thus the so-called commercially oriented SHORTHORN bulls-are never tested in real conditions;and are not viable like an Angus,or Hereford that is readily available-not to mention some really useable Maines who  PROBABLY have  more DOCUMENTED calves on the ground than the entire population of SHORTHORNS IN THE US Thats why JMO the there are scarse few Shorthorn bulls I WOULD EVEN RECCOMMEND TO A COMMERCIAL BREEDER here in the US.  O0
 

shortyjock89

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He looks really straight fronted here, and maybe he was. But he's 6 now, and is one of the soundest bulls I've seen. No excuses, just being honest. I have a picture of him from last fall if I can ever find it.  Had a guy here last week that tried to buy him, but we have to find a replacement for him first. 
 

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Eggbert

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I have posted this information on here before, but last year we sold 32 head - 91% (29 out of 32) graded Choice or Prime.  5 Prime and 24 Choice.  28 of them were sired by AF KF VG Step Ahead or a Step Ahead son.

A majority of his calves are in the low to mid 80's at birth.  Weaning / Yearling growth is outstanding. Last year we took a Step Ahead steer calf to butcher at 12.5 months age and he weighed 1309 lbs.

We have 9 Step Ahead calves in the Shorthorn Assoc. Great State Feedout...so that will provide us with more data.  Plus we have about 30 more calves that we are feeding out at home - we will most likely sell them to Tyson on the grid.





-XBAR- said:
-You have 100 average grade cows .

-All the calves will be sold on the grid. If profit is your concern-

Q) What shorthorn bull do you use?

Q) Is scan data the determinant? Id like to hear some explanations as well, not just bull x or y.  What are the factors that determine your decision?
 

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Okotoks

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mark tenenbaum said:
Waukaru Patent is great like fantasy football-the problem is that mere mortals-like small breeders and commercial people arent part of the syndication trading society:and are in no posistion to pay $2500-5000 for syndicate membership-to breed some commercials-or 5-10 cows.Thus the so-called commercially oriented SHORTHORN bulls-are never tested in real conditions;and are not viable like an Angus,or Hereford that is readily available-not to mention some really useable Maines who  PROBABLY have  more DOCUMENTED calves on the ground than the entire population of SHORTHORNS IN THE US Thats why JMO the there are scarse few Shorthorn bulls I WOULD EVEN RECCOMMEND TO A COMMERCIAL BREEDER here in the US.  O0
But those breeders that own him offer a lot of sons. There is several in Waukaru's upcoming sale.

http://www.shorthorncountry.net/image/2013/Waukaru.pdf

There's other high perfromance bulls like Cedar Grove's Crooked Post Tamarack. They are selling some this weekend that had great gains, one 1401 lbs. at 369 days.

http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/quebec-bull-test/
 

RyanChandler

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Good looking bull eggbert! I would have never guessed his pedigree. I find it odd his epds considering not only his actuals, but his sire and progenies.  Post some pics of his daughters if you have any  (thumbsup)
 

Waukaru

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mark tenenbaum said:
Waukaru Patent is great like fantasy football-the problem is that mere mortals-like small breeders and commercial people arent part of the syndication trading society:and are in no posistion to pay $2500-5000 for syndicate membership-to breed some commercials-or 5-10 cows.Thus the so-called commercially oriented SHORTHORN bulls-are never tested in real conditions;and are not viable like an Angus,or Hereford that is readily available-not to mention some really useable Maines who  PROBABLY have  more DOCUMENTED calves on the ground than the entire population of SHORTHORNS IN THE US Thats why JMO the there are scarse few Shorthorn bulls I WOULD EVEN RECCOMMEND TO A COMMERCIAL BREEDER here in the US.  O0
  Careful Mark,  I do sell semen to commercial cattlemen on Waukaru Patent 8161.  I sell semen on him, his brother, and a son.  You may not like my pricing structure but the genetics do get into large operations.  Several sons will sell in our upcoming bull sale.  Last year the two highest selling bulls were Patent 8161 sons that went into 500+ head cow herds. 
 

mark tenenbaum

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Waukaru said:
mark tenenbaum said:
Waukaru Patent is great like fantasy football-the problem is that mere mortals-like small breeders and commercial people arent part of the syndication trading society:and are in no posistion to pay $2500-5000 for syndicate membership-to breed some commercials-or 5-10 cows.Thus the so-called commercially oriented SHORTHORN bulls-are never tested in real conditions;and are not viable like an Angus,or Hereford that is readily available-not to mention some really useable Maines who  PROBABLY have  more DOCUMENTED calves on the ground than the entire population of SHORTHORNS IN THE US Thats why JMO the there are scarse few Shorthorn bulls I WOULD EVEN RECCOMMEND TO A COMMERCIAL BREEDER here in the US.  O0
  Careful Mark,  I do sell semen to commercial cattlemen on Waukaru Patent 8161.  I sell semen on him, his brother, and a son.  You may not like my pricing structure but the genetics do get into large operations.  Several sons will sell in our upcoming bull sale.  Last year the two highest selling bulls were Patent 8161 sons that went into 500+ head cow herds.  /// OK-how much for 5 straws to a small breeder?
 

GM

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The original question was aimed at fulfilling the needs of a 100 cow operation.  Not sure the 5-10 cow guy is as concerned w selling on the grid (much less making a profit selling by the pound).

Xbar raises a good question - one that exposes a weakness in the US shorthorns; an answer to this question isn't readily available, and if you asked 10 different people youd get 10 different answers with very little supporting evidence from most people (not all).  Even if its a perceived weakness, there isn't enough promotion of the performance data obtained from these feed out programs that exist.  Likewise there may not be enough data on each bull to be statistically relevant.  From what I've read, the Australian breeders are ahead of the US when it comes to this topic. 
 

Mill Iron A

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That's why you go durham red and use the red angus carcass data and compliment maternal... I could make a lot of suggestions if you want to go that way
 

aj

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Mill iron....thats one reason I got into the composite deal. I'm line breeding Lancer 442 in my composites. Maybe the crossbred composites don't look so goofy now. grin.
 
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