Shorthorn bull

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jdgraham515

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Oct 20, 2011
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Looking to sell this bull here soon for a friend but wasn't too sure of his pedigree background. Any help or info would be great. Thanks!
 

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librarian

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Should be a real nice bull with Leader 21 on top and Dream Weaver on the bottom.
Leader 21 is an old school legend with lots of relevant modern progeny. Moderate size, lots of barrel, good head, good carcass, real substance.
Dream Weaver came out of a low input program emphasizing correct structure,  longevity and fertility. Extra nice udders.
It's a blended pedigree that could be real good-on paper that's how it looks to me.
 

jnm

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I kept a bull I raised out of Roanoke Flashback and used to breed heifers for a couple of years. At the time I wasn't too excited about the calves (other than no birthing problems with heifers always good). This spring I'm looking at cows in field and realized that the five 4-5 year old cows I have out of that bull are all good thick cows and raise good calves. I'm considering looking for some Roanoke semen to use again.
 

jdgraham515

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This pic does the bull no justice it's just a quick cell phone pic. A friend of mine was wanting to sell him and wondered if any interest
 

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oakview

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Astronaut and Tribune do not contribute any fleshing ability and moderation to the pedigree.  I would certainly recommend getting the bull in better condition before trying to sell him. 
 

shortyjock89

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oakview said:
Astronaut and Tribune do not contribute any fleshing ability and moderation to the pedigree.  I would certainly recommend getting the bull in better condition before trying to sell him.

100% agree.  He looks like the old dual purpose types that dad refused to use in the 80's. Could look way way different with a couple hundred pounds on him though.
 

librarian

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I accidentally deleted my last post.
But the gist was wondering why these different pedigrees would be mixed. My guess would be a hope that this bull would change the cow type of his daughters.
Thicken them up, improve udders, get showable heifers out of dual type cows?
But, as XBAR often points out, he will probably breed very unpredictably and he himself is an example of stirring a lot of different things together.
Pictured:
Flashback
Dream Weaver
Super Dazzler
Leader 21
I couldn't find Tribune or Astronaut pictures. But I like Surge and he sired Tribune, I think.
 

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oakview

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I understand we all look at cattle differently, but for the life of me, I can't tell by looking at the photo of the bull that he will thicken up his offspring or sire show type heifers out of dual type cows.  Nothing tells me that he will improve udders.  To the best of my knowledge, the Leader 21 line was not known for their great milking ability or udders.  I know several "experienced" breeders that have semen in their tank of Leader 21 line bulls and will not use it because the cows didn't milk to their satisfaction.  Tribune sired Rodeo Drive, supposedly, and the Rodeo Drive daughters generally had good udders.  I'm not trying to downgrade the bull, he's okay.  I just can't see him as the easy doing, great fleshing kind.
 

librarian

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Oakview, I agree with you completely about looking at the bull himself. But, from the pedigree, I can see why are person could hope to add thickness with a Leader 21 %.
My remarks about udders come from my experience with Dream Weaver. Also from that experience I believe he throws a lot of dual phenotype-some better  some worse. But he does stamp a nice udder that passes on. Look at Impossible Dream. Crossing her to a Leader 21 son worked out well- but the cross in the bull of this topic has a lot of other stuff bred in, so the result is far more variable. I was told Dream Weaver's best attributes probably come from Homedale. 
I'm not suggesting this bull would thicken anything up- I don't think he drew that card.
Just speculating. Most of what I learned about pedigrees came from you, so please correct me and I will try to keep learning.
Re:Tribune http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/any-of-this-old-semen-worth-anything-at-all/msg48310/#msg48310

Re:Roanoke Flashback
http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/roanoke-flashback/
http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/breeding-shorthorn/msg324537/#msg324537
 

oakview

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I'm probably different than most people, but I equate thickness with muscling and the Leader line was not known for adding real muscle.  JIT shared his experiences with the Leader line and carcass quality, specifically ribeye area, in another thread.  They should add depth and fleshing ability to most present day genetics, though.  Most likely just a terminology difference. 

I was leafing thorough an April, 1976, issue of Shorthorn Country and came across a two page ad for Dover Ranch's 4th annual production sale.  Pictured are 6 bulls, 5 are sons of LR Randolph 14th.  There was also a photo of a group of yearling heifers to be offered.  They tout performance testing every animal raised and the ability of their females to thrive and breed in a limited environment.  No cows are kept in the herd that have not raised a calf every year of their productive lives.  Very interesting ad compared to the rest in the magazine.  Not much has changed in 40 years.     
 
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