Shorthorn Bull Opinions DRC 101VM (Dover) and RS DV 034 329 08

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phillse

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This year I am letting the home raised Goldmine 2109 son tend to the Shorthorn cows.  However I am going to AI both his dam and full sister to one of either DRC 101VM (Dover) or RS DV 034 329 08.

Both bulls on paper pretty much accomplish my goals of moderating size keeping birthweight low, maintaining adequate growth and keeping milk from going too high but not dropping too low.  Just looking for people experiences with these two bulls.
 

phillse

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Here are pictures of the bulls taken from Cattle Visions web site.
 

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phillse

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Below is a pic. of the Shadybrook Scotty female.  She currently has a Goldmine 2109 bull calf. 
The other female is her daughter out of Waukaru Goldmine 2109.  The daughter is has not filled out quite as much the mom.  She did a good job with her first calf so she was bred to Ar Su Lu Osage and has an Osage heifer calf as her second calf.
 

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phillse

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I am attaching a spread sheet of bulls I looked at and considered.  Some of the information may have changed since creating it this Fall but I included all the information I had on the bulls at the time.

I went ahead and ordered the semen on the two bulls listed primarily based on the information available and convenience of Cattle Visions representative nearby.  I have semen in the tank now of the highlighted bulls plus Shadybrook Scotty.
 

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phillse

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I have only used 2 Waukaru bulls Waukaru Carnegie and Waukaru Goldmine 2109. But they have been pretty consistent.  Good growth, good milk.  I do not have any females left that go back to Carnegie.  I made some poor breeding decisions early on with too much focus on growth and not enough on multi-trait selection on other Bulls I used.  I only have 2 Goldmine heifers.  One Goldmine heifer has her first calf, the other her second calf.  I like what I see out of the Goldmine heifers and so far I like the calves out of the Goldmine bull calf that is out of the cow pictured.

We are moving to more cross bred cows.  Simmental x Shorthorn.  SimAngus.  Shorthorn x Red Angus, but trying to keep a few purebred cows of each breed and continue to improve them.  But we are small fries with about 40 brood cows total.

We mainly raise Shorthorn because my dad loves them and I think they have a lot to offer but marketing is difficult.
 

phillse

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Reasons in selecting these two bulls


1. Trying to select Red moderate bulls PHA Free, TH Free and DS Free but mostly PHA-F and TH-F
2. Calving Ease more that Birth Weight (both bulls in top 10% for calving ease)
2. Maternal Weaning (puts both bulls in top 40%)
3. Maternal Calving ease (puts both bulls in top 30%)
4. Both are linebred to a degree, so consistency should be improved.
5. Both are pretty much an outcross for me.
6. Reports that cattle are thick, commercial oriented cattle.

I felt these bulls gave the best chance of fitting into a long range breeding plan.

Dover is listed as mature frame of 5 on cattle visions but 57" is between 5 and 6 for mature bulls.

It was starting to appear that perhaps I was getting too much milk in the cows which was starting to affect fleshing ability.

I was looking for tools to use in combinations with Scotty, 2109, and Osage.





 

mark tenenbaum

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Want em thick with some showy looks;along with the calving ease etc.? The three I see are:Hot Commodity,Sull Payday,and Turners deception-I like Ralph Larsons bull-and diamond Prophecy too-The Rs DV deal just doesnt stack up to these in terms of eye appeal-And JMO-Dover would work better on showyer cattle-where you certainly dont have to worry about too nuch milk production O0
 

phillse

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Ya'll have given me a lot of food for thought. and made me rethink some of my choices and parameters.  Keep that part coming.

I will restate that I am looking for commercially oriented cattle that are functional.

I would really like to hear the pro's and cons from some who have used the bulls and have calves and/or females in production by them.  I realize this is a more show oriented cattle site; however, it is one of the few places were Shorthorn discussion takes place.

These bulls may or may not work, time will tell.  I have used four shorthorns bulls in the past that sure did not work, the cow killer, the growth, the muscle and the dud.  Three of the four were AI sires that came highly recommended and they may have worked under others  conditions but did not under mine.

I have a plan for how I will use the two bulls as part of a bigger picture in my herd, will it work, time will tell.  I will have no one to blame but myself if not.

 

kiblercattle

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I have 7 grand daughters of Dover. 2 were first calvers last year sold one absolutely no milk non what so ever sold her. Other lost her calf grafted a twin on her she did ok with him. 5 are calving or calves right now all are nice heifers. To much milk defiantly isn't a problem a couple have what looks like enough one looks pretty dry but time will tell will be interesting to see how the second calver does this year.
 

OH Breeder

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mark tenenbaum said:
aj said:
The payday bull looked interesting to me.///// DITTO-Really good Lauer cow on the bottom O0

The Paydays I have seen out of some pretty stout Jazz cows were flatter in their make up. They had plenty of size and were little shallower in gut. I went back since fall to see how they came around.
 

cedargrove

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No experience with either of your choices. I have used a 2109 son for the past 4 yrs.... plenty of growth, 1st calf heifers are good milkers, probably will have 25-30 females from him--- they will mature to 6-7 frame cows. If your goal is to get some replacement heifers,you can't go wrong using Scotty--- I repeat---you CAN'T go wrong having Scotty cows!!!!I used him 10 years ago and started using him again 2yrs ago to get a few more females. Good milkers, nice udders,nice teat size and placement, fault-free,docile and breed back like clockwork.
 

mark tenenbaum

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OH Breeder said:
mark tenenbaum said:
aj said:
The payday bull looked interesting to me.///// DITTO-Really good Lauer cow on the bottom O0

The Paydays I have seen out of some pretty stout Jazz cows were flatter in their make up. They had plenty of size and were little shallower in gut. I went back since fall to see how they came around./// Thats good to know since he looks so good on paper-also: in the picture he doesnt look like hed add any size either- The KABA clubby breeding seems to work best on the Jazzes from what Ive seen-JITs  Touchdown Canadian too-little surprised payday didnt knick tho O0
 

GAL

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I think you pick out two great Bulls to use. We had calves out of both Bulls and I really like the 329 calves. The Dover calves are good too but are later maturing.  I'm really excited for next summer because we will be running 329 in our pasture.
 

phillse

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Thanks to all for their knowledge, input and civility related to the topic; I hope this continues and the discussion is as good going forward as it has been.

For those interested, I am planning to do a little linebreeding using Scotty, Osage and 2109 off of some of the better females ( part of the plan is to use home raised bulls from some of the best cows to increase their influence in the herd), with 329 and Dover proving shots of outcross genetics. 
 

librarian

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http://www.diamondshorthorns.com/jackaroo.html
Diamond has semen on this Australian bull that is a Scotty son.
Maybe not in hour calving ease class, but it seems like the Australians pay close attention to functionality.
This stupid predictive text sure makes for a lot of edits.... Who named these things Smart?
 

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