Shorthorn dispersal

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Lewis_Family_Cattle

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librarian said:
Maybe the progeny of those Cal-Poly cows are in there

We actually just bought Jake Ohlde's herd out and were extremely happy to be able to do so and keep that group together.
And Yes, that cow and several other poly lines were in the group as well as the Sultan of Jazz and Blue Diamond bulls.

If you get the chance please check out our Facebook page "Lewis Cattle" out of Porum, OK.  We originally went to Jake's about 5 years ago to get back into the shorthorn business and purchased 5 donors from him.  We've been extremely happy with the fleshing ability, longevity, and phenotype of those cattle.  Since then we have purchased several shorts from Tom Farrer, Todd Clark, and others, including Jazz's full sister, and flushed these females to improve herd quality and numbers.  It's been a slow process but we absolutely love these cattle and look forward to growing our program with the Ohlde Shorthorn herd.
 

Medium Rare

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CYT-April2016.jpg
 

justintime

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mark tenenbaum said:
aj said:
Isn't CYT just recycled Sullivan and Cates the usual me to breeding programs?/// YOU GOT IT-ALONG WITH ALL THE "SYNDICATED BULLS" all 3 seem to own O0

It seems to me that they have all had a fair bit of success so what is the problem? There is no rule or law that says you have to ever use any of the genetics they use. Why do so many people have to complain and/or gossip about those who have been successful? Is it because they can't compete with their success and they make attempts to bring them down to their level, or is it just envoy of their successes? I will never understand,  that if they are wrong and you are smarter and know what they are doing wrong, why you people don't just get with the program and make better cattle? I get so tired of people complaining and doing nothing to correct what they see as being wrong. You apparently have an issue with syndicated bulls. If you have no desire to ever be involved with one of these bulls, how does it affect you?  I guess complaining is just so much easier than actually doing something to change all the wrongs you have identified. Sometimes I wonder what it would actually be like to come here and actually see a bunch of positive comments rather than the negativity that seems to drive so many. Quite frankly, it is getting rather sickening!
Personally, I am a bit sad to see Cyclone Trace disperse. I think John Hagie is one of the nicest men I have ever known in the cattle industry. I am thankful for what he has done and I think he will be missed. He designed a breeding program that did what it was designed to do. The Cyclone Trace herd had many successes over the years, and they should be very proud. It was a wonderful sight to attend one of their sales and see families going through the sale pens and sorting the cattle. He had a real heart for juniors and I can think of few who did so much to help junior programs.  Many of the cattle they produced were not what I was looking for in my breeding program, but I did purchase a couple females that have been very good producers for me.
But life goes on, and change is constant. This would be a perfect time for someone to design a good breeding program. It doesn't have to be the same as that designed by John Hagie and his crew. Design your own program and build some useful cattle.
 

knabe

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His job is to complain about other breeder's programs, produce nothing, complain about carriers, and take one to Denver.


Being a hypocrite is hard work.


We all know he would syndicate a bull if he had a chance.
 

mbigelow

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Mark, complaining is what kids do!  Read Grant's post I believe he is spot on.  I will miss John also.
 

oakview

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John Hagie did many, many positive things for the breed, especially in Iowa, that most of you don't even know about.  We all owe him a big thank you.  I'm going to have the grand kids save their pennies and make sure we buy something at the sale.  I sincerely hope John does not make himself a stranger at future breed activities.  He did what he wanted to do and truly enjoyed it.  We should all be so lucky.
 

justintime

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oakview said:
John Hagie did many, many positive things for the breed, especially in Iowa, that most of you don't even know about.  We all owe him a big thank you.  I'm going to have the grand kids save their pennies and make sure we buy something at the sale.  I sincerely hope John does not make himself a stranger at future breed activities.  He did what he wanted to do and truly enjoyed it.  We should all be so lucky.


Lonny...I could not agree more!  If the people who b**ch and complain on here did even a fraction of the good John Hagie has done, the world would be a much better place. You are 100% right in regards to John doing what he wanted to do, and have great success and enjoyment out of it. I always thought that was a big part of what a good life was supposed to be made of. Unfortunately, there are so many out there that will go to their graves complaining about something!
 

knabe

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justintime said:
Unfortunately, there are so many out there that will go to their graves complaining about something!


epitaph: here lies a man who used a big shovel.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Since when was agreeing with the type of pedigrees cattle have constituted a complaint? They are basically from the same gene pool,etc.Thats just a fact-look at the sale catalogues. I guess its because AJ said something that I agree with.And I still do.That doesnt mean I hate anyone. I have also complimented Sullivan etc for the unseen efforts made to produce so many "quality" show cattle (and the 10s of thousands of dollars lost on the ETS that do not turn out). And have made mention several times that although small breeders cant access some of the genetics readily-the CALVING issues AND INACCURATE or INCONCLUSIVE NUMBERS which did not verify this and which were setting the breed back even farther:are in change mode for the better-and Sullivan Et-al are incorporating Red Reward etc into thier marketing-breeding programs. So by attrition the unsyndicated sons of these genetics will come available.SOMETHING NEEDED TO BE DONE-SO- I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH THE POWERS THAT BE THAT A MAJOR CHANGE IN EPDS WAS IN ORDER-especially BWS.(NOT THAT ANY ULTIMATUMS WERE ISSUED OR ANYTHING)O0
 

mbigelow

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The way I took AJ's comment coupled with your was that they had no vision or ability to create their own product.  I believe they were on business long before Sullivan got into the shorts.  But, your comment about the syndicated bulls was where I felt like you were complaining.  Regardless of your opinion of the genetics it'seems the attack ( or precieved one)on the owner that got most of is riled up.  John is a good man and done great things to support the juniors and many of the feed trials the breed has done. So, I think a little more careful wording to your agreement with AJ'so comment would have helped.
 

mark tenenbaum

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My take on this has little to do with: jr support, donations and feed trials:eek:r the good things Hagie and others have done-and if he wants to disperse for any reason-thats his and ONLY his business.-Its about keeping the gene pool extremely segregated to those  that can afford the price of purchase of progeny or 10-50 straws of semen on the next untried big thing @ $500 per straw (in some cases) when you only have 5 cows etc.Then-in some cases-the bull sorta disappears -This in general creates a very small number of animals-indecies from which  to draw a reasonable idea how the cattle up and down the pedigree will perform-expected (range of BWS) etc.outside of that gene pool. So-as such, things got a "ilttle inaccurate"-CF Solution and others ended up with very low BW epds which transferred on through all those cattle related-but in reality THATS JUST ARE NOT THE CASE: these are ANYTHING BUT CE GENETICS.I KNOW THAT AS A FACT-FROM A NUMBER OF SOURCES-PEOPLE IN LOW PLACES THAT ACTUALLY DO THE WORK AND THE CALVING.THIS WENT ON FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS-So-the Association stepped in.In order to sell cattle and get any modicum of return,the high end or show oriented breeders more or less had to continue in that fashion or they would not stay in the market. And BWs were no longer part of the description on alot of the sale cattle.These are just a couple reasons why I dont think syndication is a boon to any breed.-Maybe its a good thing that some of these GENETICS WERE SYNDICATED to keep too many unknowing users from getting hurt? Who knows? But thats my pet peeve and I:m sticking with it. Having a different opinion is not a condemnation of Hagie and the good things hes done at all-and that is (again) an ez posistion to take.And there are some "syndicated" bulls I wish I could use-At the moment I just dont have a market for calves that eminate from $2000 straws of semen.  O0
 

shortyjock89

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Not to mention their best two cow families are coveted by everyone in the breed and have nothing to do with Sullivan breeding. Max Rosa was an afterthought before 310 went into production, and Dream Lady 420 brought that particular cow family back to the forefront of the show cattle elite.

I owe nearly all of my success to CYT. They were my first full time job after college, and I've  learned more from Jess than basically everyone else in the show cattle world put together. I've never again worked in such good facilities.

They've been a top notch program for decades and they'll be missed. I'll definitely be in attendance May 28 and will give it my best try to bring home some more of their good stock.
 

mbigelow

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I am good with your stance now that you have explained it.  It just didn't come across that way when I read it the first time.
 

mark tenenbaum

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justintime said:
mark tenenbaum said:
aj said:
Isn't CYT just recycled Sullivan and Cates the usual me to breeding programs?/// YOU GOT IT-ALONG WITH ALL THE "SYNDICATED BULLS" all 3 seem to own O0

It seems to me that they have all had a fair bit of success so what is the problem? There is no rule or law that says you have to ever use any of the genetics they use. Why do so many people have to complain and/or gossip about those who have been successful? Is it because they can't compete with their success and they make attempts to bring them down to their level, or is it just envoy of their successes? I will never understand,  that if they are wrong and you are smarter and know what they are doing wrong, why you people don't just get with the program and make better cattle? I get so tired of people complaining and doing nothing to correct what they see as being wrong. You apparently have an issue with syndicated bulls. If you have no desire to ever be involved with one of these bulls, how does it affect you?  I guess complaining is just so much easier than actually doing something to change all the wrongs you have identified. Sometimes I wonder what it would actually be like to come here and actually see a bunch of positive comments rather than the negativity that seems to drive so many. Quite frankly, it is getting rather sickening!
Personally, I am a bit sad to see Cyclone Trace disperse. I think John Hagie is one of the nicest men I have ever known in the cattle industry. I am thankful for what he has done and I think he will be missed. He designed a breeding program that did what it was designed to do. The Cyclone Trace herd had many successes over the years, and they should be very proud. It was a wonderful sight to attend one of their sales and see families going through the sale pens and sorting the cattle. He had a real heart for juniors and I can think of few who did so much to help junior programs.  Many of the cattle they produced were not what I was looking for in my breeding program, but I did purchase a couple females that have been very good producers for me.
But life goes on, and change is constant. This would be a perfect time for someone to design a good breeding program. It doesn't have to be the same as that designed by John Hagie and his crew. Design your own program and build some useful cattle.//// I almost never bring my cattle or background into the arena:and my exploits all over the planet BUT THIS TIME I WILL-One of the major familes and HAGIES HERD BULL ARE GRANDSONS AND DAUGHTERS OF UB MAD MAX AS IN CYT MAXIM, AND THE MAX ROSA FAMILIES.-A GUY IN VA NAMED MARK TENENBAUM RAISED HIM FROM AN EMBRYO-AND WITH LAWRENCE GRATHWOHL WON ALMOST EVERY NATIONAL SHOW THAT YEAR.BUT MAX STARTED OUT SLOW AND ONLY ONE PERSON REALLY THOUGHT ANYTHING OF HIM AS A CALF-WHICH WAS FRANK KAELERS DAUGHTER-WE BOTH CONCURRED THAT HE NEEDED SOME GUTS ETC-BUT WITH THE MARK 4 AND CANADIAN BACK THERE HE SURE OUGHTA WORK WITH HOMEDALE FLASH-AND THATS WHERE THE MAX ROSA CAME FROM.SO ALTHOUGH IM NOT A FASHIONABLE FOLLOWER ETC-THERES A PART OF ME IN THAT SALE O0
 

Gargan

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Impressive fact Mark!  (clapping). Sometimes u gotta show a scar to prove that you've been in the trench ( so to speak).
 

aj

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The video i just saw on their web site said that they have been in business for over 100 years......I didn't realize that.
 

aj

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There is alot of despair in projected farm equipment sales for a couple years and the last couple of years ain't been the best. From an accountant perspective......would a dispersion be a timing deal when one figures out capital gains issues and leveling out income of a large corporation deal. I know here cash rents are going down......several established farmers were caught over extended......financial lenders have flat laid down the wood in borrowing money....Companies like John Deere have had disappointing returns.....the price of wheat and corn flat crashed out.
 
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