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Offline cwa

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2008, 06:58:51 PM »
Here is the other picture that I have of "Jumbo Leader".   

I'm hoping to get some more copies from Wally. 


Offline garybob

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2008, 06:59:04 PM »
High-five! Thanks for the photo. Don't have to look twice to see if He's a bull or a heifer calf. Club-calf sires' Denver-pics pale in comparison.

GB
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 07:00:53 PM by garybob »

Offline cwa

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2008, 07:00:38 PM »
High-five! Thanks for the photo.

GB

Sure thing Gary.  You're welcome.   :)

Wally tells me that he will also be collecting semen on the bull.   

Offline shortdawg

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2008, 08:55:50 PM »
He reminds me a lot of Jake's Proud Jazz. I think JPJ may be a little deeper bodied and deeper chested but, they are a lot alike.
Eph. 2:8-10

Offline Jill

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2008, 10:42:49 AM »
We flushed our Black Dice donor to JPJ and put all 5 in, they appear to all be due in about 3 weeks, I'm SO excited!

Offline cwa

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2008, 11:56:09 AM »
Don't have to look twice to see if He's a bull or a heifer calf. Club-calf sires' Denver-pics pale in comparison.

GB

You're exactly right..........Another thing about "Jumbo Leader" is that he has been raised in harsh low-input forage conditions out on that High Desert Land up in Montana,  and he has still been able to maintain his natural thickness without hardly any grain. 

A lot of these club calf animals of today would not be able to survive, and maintain the same type of natural thickness out in those same type of harsh conditions without a bunch of grain.  Animals that are able to function and perform in all types of harsh and challenging conditions with low forage-input are the type of animals that will have longevity. 


« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 12:01:46 PM by cwa »

Offline OH Breeder

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2008, 10:27:39 PM »
Here is the other picture that I have of "Jumbo Leader".   

I'm hoping to get some more copies from Wally. 



Outstanding- I have 5 amps of TPS Coronet in my Tank and 2 of Kinnebar Leader 9th. I would like to see the female that the young bull came out of. I really feel there is a place for the old genetics in todays world.
Thank you CWA.
Life is too short....don't sweat the small stuff.

Offline cwa

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2008, 11:54:50 PM »


Outstanding- I have 5 amps of TPS Coronet in my Tank and 2 of Kinnebar Leader 9th. I would like to see the female that the young bull came out of. I really feel there is a place for the old genetics in todays world.
Thank you CWA.
[/quote]

You're welcome OH Breeder.   :)

I would  like to see the mother of this bull also.  Unfortunately Wally lost her to "Hardware" and he tells me that he doesn't think he ever took a picture of her. 

All I know about his dam is that she was a dark red cow that was sired by, "Newbiggon Jumbo" which was a son of "Mandalong Super Elephant".   



Offline garybob

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2008, 03:41:34 PM »
Don't have to look twice to see if He's a bull or a heifer calf. Club-calf sires' Denver-pics pale in comparison.

GB

You're exactly right..........Another thing about "Jumbo Leader" is that he has been raised in harsh low-input forage conditions out on that High Desert Land up in Montana,  and he has still been able to maintain his natural thickness without hardly any grain. 

A lot of these club calf animals of today would not be able to survive, and maintain the same type of natural thickness out in those same type of harsh conditions without a bunch of grain.  Animals that are able to function and perform in all types of harsh and challenging conditions with low forage-input are the type of animals that will have longevity. 



I'm just glad somebody else can say the same things I do, about this breed, and not get castrated.
Contrary to popular opinion on this message board, I love this breed. Ever since I was old enough to dump range cubes on my Pa-paw's place. My first registered Shorthorn, "Estelle", was a "project calf" in 1985. Hard to understand why the breed, as a whole, has lost its desire to be an active player in the grand scheme of things.

GB

Offline OH Breeder

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2008, 04:37:07 PM »
Don't have to look twice to see if He's a bull or a heifer calf. Club-calf sires' Denver-pics pale in comparison.

GB

You're exactly right..........Another thing about "Jumbo Leader" is that he has been raised in harsh low-input forage conditions out on that High Desert Land up in Montana,  and he has still been able to maintain his natural thickness without hardly any grain. 

A lot of these club calf animals of today would not be able to survive, and maintain the same type of natural thickness out in those same type of harsh conditions without a bunch of grain.  Animals that are able to function and perform in all types of harsh and challenging conditions with low forage-input are the type of animals that will have longevity. 



I'm just glad somebody else can say the same things I do, about this breed, and not get castrated.
Contrary to popular opinion on this message board, I love this breed. Ever since I was old enough to dump range cubes on my Pa-paw's place. My first registered Shorthorn, "Estelle", was a "project calf" in 1985. Hard to understand why the breed, as a whole, has lost its desire to be an active player in the grand scheme of things.

GB

We don't have harsh conditions where I live. We have lots of grain and usually great pastures. I grain very little but because I lack a ton of pasture I still do alittle. If you want to breed for challenge harsh conditions great. But as I whole, I have show calves. It is my hobby and not my fulll time job. I think what most folks are saying GB is enjoy what you have. If you want cattle to survive on prickely pears etc then that is your focus. But if you aren't thats okay to. That is what makes this industy so fun to me. You can be involved with cattle in MANY different ways.
Life is too short....don't sweat the small stuff.

Offline showsteernc

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2008, 05:59:49 PM »
OHB, hows the hay situation in Ohio?

Offline OH Breeder

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2008, 08:28:09 PM »
OHB, hows the hay situation in Ohio?
I brought this up a few months back and some folks felt it was fine. In my little part of the world, lots of guys sent stock to market. Our prices dropped considerabley. But, because I cut my herd in half my demand was greatly reduced. This is also what I suspect is happened around the area. Most of the folks that I have talked with cut there herds hard. We baled 30 acres of corn stalks, I am down to my last 18 rounds and am also supplementing cornstalks to stretch it. Hay season is just around the corner. I should have plenty of cornstalks to get through.
Hay still running high.
Locally 225 a ton for horse quality hay
            7-9.00 small squares
            150 ton grass rounds
most want 2 plus dollar a mile to deliver from any distance. Unfortunately I am more dependant on delivery due to health restrictions as well farm help.
Life is too short....don't sweat the small stuff.

Offline garybob

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2008, 06:29:14 PM »
Don't have to look twice to see if He's a bull or a heifer calf. Club-calf sires' Denver-pics pale in comparison.

GB

You're exactly right..........Another thing about "Jumbo Leader" is that he has been raised in harsh low-input forage conditions out on that High Desert Land up in Montana,  and he has still been able to maintain his natural thickness without hardly any grain. 

A lot of these club calf animals of today would not be able to survive, and maintain the same type of natural thickness out in those same type of harsh conditions without a bunch of grain.  Animals that are able to function and perform in all types of harsh and challenging conditions with low forage-input are the type of animals that will have longevity. 



I'm just glad somebody else can say the same things I do, about this breed, and not get castrated.
Contrary to popular opinion on this message board, I love this breed. Ever since I was old enough to dump range cubes on my Pa-paw's place. My first registered Shorthorn, "Estelle", was a "project calf" in 1985. Hard to understand why the breed, as a whole, has lost its desire to be an active player in the grand scheme of things.

GB

We don't have harsh conditions where I live. We have lots of grain and usually great pastures. I grain very little but because I lack a ton of pasture I still do alittle. If you want to breed for challenge harsh conditions great. But as I whole, I have show calves. It is my hobby and not my fulll time job. I think what most folks are saying GB is enjoy what you have. If you want cattle to survive on prickely pears etc then that is your focus. But if you aren't thats okay to. That is what makes this industy so fun to me. You can be involved with cattle in MANY different ways.
The problem starts, OH Breeder, when someone takes a sire-candidate raised in the environment in which you described (similiarly raised bulls of any breed, not just Shorthorns) from, let's say North-central Missouri(gently-rolling, loamy soil, corn silage,etc) to even Southern Missouri a distance of only 175 miles. It's a sad sight when they hit the Red Clay, Rocks, and steep slopes. Man, those "pretty boys" seriously "melt" (like the "bad guys" from Raiders of the Lost Ark).

I know this, because my cousin married a guy from the area around Rolla, MO. He bought some bulls from "Circle-You-know-Who".

GB

Offline OH Breeder

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2008, 08:13:57 PM »

[/quote]

We don't have harsh conditions where I live. We have lots of grain and usually great pastures. I grain very little but because I lack a ton of pasture I still do alittle. If you want to breed for challenge harsh conditions great. But as I whole, I have show calves. It is my hobby and not my fulll time job. I think what most folks are saying GB is enjoy what you have. If you want cattle to survive on prickely pears etc then that is your focus. But if you aren't thats okay to. That is what makes this industy so fun to me. You can be involved with cattle in MANY different ways.
[/quote]The problem starts, OH Breeder, when someone takes a sire-candidate raised in the environment in which you described (similiarly raised bulls of any breed, not just Shorthorns) from, let's say North-central Missouri(gently-rolling, loamy soil, corn silage,etc) to even Southern Missouri a distance of only 175 miles. It's a sad sight when they hit the Red Clay, Rocks, and steep slopes. Man, those "pretty boys" seriously "melt" (like the "bad guys" from Raiders of the Lost Ark).

I know this, because my cousin married a guy from the area around Rolla, MO. He bought some bulls from "Circle-You-know-Who".

GB
[/quote]
What I say to that. Shame on them for not investigating the conditions that they stock are raised in. I always want to know how the cattle i buy are raised. Pasture grain etc. I think it gives you an indication on future performance. If you have a big ol tub and they came from great pastures and some grain here and there. The change in enviroment can cause any animal to crash. I am no authority by no means. Just my opinion. If I were looking for cattle in your conditions I would look for breeders in that area. Stock that was thriving in your location. Didn't we talk about this a few months back. Enviromental changes and cattle.

PS, maybe I am not too bright, who is the circle of you know who. You can PM if you want. I missed that.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 08:15:19 PM by OH Breeder »
Life is too short....don't sweat the small stuff.

Offline cwa

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Re: Shorthorn - Native Breeding Stock
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2008, 11:11:12 AM »


We don't have harsh conditions where I live. We have lots of grain and usually great pastures. I grain very little but because I lack a ton of pasture I still do alittle. If you want to breed for challenge harsh conditions great. But as I whole, I have show calves. It is my hobby and not my fulll time job. I think what most folks are saying GB is enjoy what you have. If you want cattle to survive on prickely pears etc then that is your focus. But if you aren't thats okay to. That is what makes this industy so fun to me. You can be involved with cattle in MANY different ways.
[/quote]The problem starts, OH Breeder, when someone takes a sire-candidate raised in the environment in which you described (similiarly raised bulls of any breed, not just Shorthorns) from, let's say North-central Missouri(gently-rolling, loamy soil, corn silage,etc) to even Southern Missouri a distance of only 175 miles. It's a sad sight when they hit the Red Clay, Rocks, and steep slopes. Man, those "pretty boys" seriously "melt" (like the "bad guys" from Raiders of the Lost Ark).

I know this, because my cousin married a guy from the area around Rolla, MO. He bought some bulls from "Circle-You-know-Who".

GB
[/quote]
What I say to that. Shame on them for not investigating the conditions that they stock are raised in. I always want to know how the cattle i buy are raised. Pasture grain etc. I think it gives you an indication on future performance. If you have a big ol tub and they came from great pastures and some grain here and there. The change in enviroment can cause any animal to crash. I am no authority by no means. Just my opinion. If I were looking for cattle in your conditions I would look for breeders in that area. Stock that was thriving in your location. Didn't we talk about this a few months back. Enviromental changes and cattle.

PS, maybe I am not too bright, who is the circle of you know who. You can PM if you want. I missed that.
[/quote]

Hi OH Breeder,

I hear what you are saying, however a good sound, and functional animal should be able to adapt to all environments no matter what the conditions are.  That same animal should also have good sound feet and legs.   Now when we talk about the productivity of a good sound and functional cow, she should be able to produce and raise a healthy calf every single year all the way up until she is at least 14 years old.

I do not claim to be an authority either, and I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers, however I must admit that I am not too crazy about a lot of the main stream shorthorn animals that are being produced today.  Too many of them are post legged, and a lot of these nice pretty show animals are not what I call good sound, and functional animals.   I'm afraid too many shorthorn breeders over the years have gotten away from the genetics that made the breed great.  The Shorthorn Breed has always been known as, "The Maternal Breed", and it seems that there are now too many Terminal Animals out there. 

As far as club calves go, what I can't understand is why both the commercial breeders and the show breeders cannot get on the same page.   I'm all for showing cattle, however at the same time I remember back in the days when club calves were also functional unlike most of the club calves of today.  Why can't we go back to raising the same types of animals that were being produced back around the mid/late 70's?  Those animals worked. 

I realize what I am saying may not be very popular with a lot of folks who raise show cattle, however I'm afraid that the types of animals that are being produced today is hurting the Shorthorn Breed more than it is helping it.  The other thing that I find ridiculous is the high emphasis on hair.  I remember back when they use to shear these animals close, and they balled their tails.   Now I can live without the balled tails, however I don't understand why hair is so important.  When I go to a steak house, I do not order hair, I order meat. 

I guess all in all I do not subscribe to most of these popular show animals, nor do I subscribe to the more popular mainstream genetics of today.   It's no wonder anytime I go to a stockyard or anytime I talk to a commercial breeder that they start bashing the Shorthorn Breed.   The Shorthorn Breed has always been known as a maternal breed, and until the commercial people and the show people get on the same page, it will continue to hurt the Shorthorn Breed.   There is no reason why Shorthorn Show Cattle cannot be functional like they use to be years ago.

In closing, I will admit once again that I do not claim to be an authority either, and I will admit that I am not an active breeder.  However I have worked with Shorthorn Cattle in the past, and I have remained a huge fan of the breed over the years ever since I was 11 years old back in 1981.  I base all of what I have said on my research along with talking to commercial breeders, and other Shorthorn Breeders across the country who are more qualified to say what I have said, and a lot of those same folks feel the same way that I do in regards to this matter.   If I have offended anyone it was not my intention to do so.  I may not be an active cattle man/breeder, however I still do care a lot about the Shorthorn Breed regardless.   I personally do not think the breed is going in the right direction, and no matter how much money is being made off of these more popular animals of today, if I were an active breeder I would still rather raise the kind of cattle that are highly functional, instead of sacrificing the breed for the sake of profit.   Once again I apologize if my words have offended anyone.  It's nothing personal, however at the same time I do not apologize for what I have said about the direction of the breed, and the kind of animals that are being produced today.  I am very passionate about this subject, and I take this kind of thing very serious.   



 


 

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