Shorthorn sire CCS Shoshone.

Hi guys. I was wondering if any of you could tell me a little bit more than I know about the Shorthorn bull CCS Shoshone. If any of you could post a pic I would really appreciate it too. Thanks in advance.

CCS Shoshone was a bull way ahead of his time.  I don't know of many bulls that added more thickness and butt to his calves. He was a non appendix son of MTU Cujo 301 and SS Jealousy Par 2A2B( BY AF Dividend's Impact). Shoshone was bred in th Shrag herd, and was born at Cagwins, and Don Cagwin put them in his sale as a sale attraction. I purchased the cow for Huberdale, here in Saskatchewan, and Shoshone for Bill and Ingrid McMahon, Lednura Shorthorns, Arundel, Quebec. I visited Lednura just as his first calf crop there was weaned, and I was amazed at the calves. They were thick meaty calves with great butts. The bulls were masculine and the females were feminine. I purchased semen on that visit and I used him quite  alot in my herd and in our ET program. I have been thinking of using Shoshone again as I still have a little semen. One of our donors HC Elsie's Jade 20P is a Shoshone daughter. A full sister to her is in Indiana.

I will to find a picture of Shoshone and his dam. 2A2B was an exceptional female and I will have to scan a picture of her and post it.

Here are a few pics of some Shoshone calves I have had:

here is another Shoshone son at 9 months

JIT, I'll be also waiting for those pictures...

My very first Shorthorn- was a CCS Shoshone granddaughter- she was sired by KKim Frontline, a Shoshone son.  Over the years this cow line, has nearly always produced our best calves- despite pure stupid luck and never truly being able to keep as many of them as I would have liked.  One thing that this cow family has also done for me- is throw consistently larger birth weights- have no idea where that comes from though- Almost 95% of the time being in the 90-105 lb range.  There will be a picture of the granddaughter attached, as well as her first daughter (sired by Kool- only one of the two under 90#s), then one of that Kool daughter and her first calf (story to proceed), and the Kool daughter's latest heifer calf (fall of '11) sired by Byland Mission.  Interesting enough, the original Rosemary cow, only produced this one calf- as we never again could get her bred; despite about 6 attempts at AI, and then being stuck in with two different bulls.  

Then, a few years later, we purchased an open heifer- who actually ended up being bred to a son of the KKim Frontline bull, and calved at 18 months of age with the 102 lb bull calf pictured last right here on this post (also despite two rounds of Lut to make her come in heat).  Due to dumb luck in the age of the dam, and needing something to clean up with- we kept him to breed cows that next year.  We ended up getting the Kool daughter bred to this bull for her first time (cleanup)- which made that resulting baby calf a double bred Frontline (both parents being grand- offspring).  That 96# heifer calf didn't quite slide out of that first calf heifer-- but it wasn't a hard pull either.  

Something that makes me wonder if the birth weigh connection comes from the Frontline/ Shoshone side of the equasion- is the fact that this particular cow (dam of bull calf) had a BW of 69- and then never again had a calf over 80 lbs, and her daughters have never had one over 70.  So that puts the double shot, and direct offspring line of that Frontline bull with the larger BWs.  I realize the KKim cattle, aren't known for large birth weights- but who knows honestly?  

I never had a Shoshone calf that requiired assistance at birth, but I never used him on heifers either. looking back in my records, the Shoshone calves were between 88 and 102 lbs at birth which in our world is decent BWs. I know that some people have used Shoshone on heifers and while, I have never heard of any problems, I can't say for sure. The second bull I pictured was used in our herd and then sold to a commerical herd who used him on heifers and cows for several years. They said he was the easiest calving bull of 5 bulls from 3 breeds that they were using at the time. I will try to find the pictures tonight and get them scanned.

irishshorthorns said:

Hi guys. I was wondering if any of you could tell me a little bit more than I know about the Shorthorn bull CCS Shoshone. If any of you could post a pic I would really appreciate it too. Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

CCS shoshone act BW 106 . His sire Mtu cujo 301 act bw 106.  Great grand sire  cc cujo  mature size 63 inches and 2280  lbs at 3 yrs of age.   

Cut the BS said:

90-105 lb range.  

Click to expand...

justintime said:

between 88 and 102 lbs at birth

Click to expand...

Seems pretty much the same damn thing to me... and that's not too far off from...
            |
            |
            |
          \/

sue said:

CCS shoshone act BW 106 . His sire Mtu cujo 301 act bw 106.  Great grand sire  cc cujo  mature size 63 inches and 2280  lbs at 3 yrs of age.   

Click to expand...

Another paternal brother to shoshone  or son of Mtu cujo 301  is MF Blueprint. I remember when they showed him... he could move, plenty of frame.... pretty sure he bred naturally late in life..

REally interesting article about cc cujo and J&H cattle in one of the 80's issues of short country- 600 plus commerical and purebred shorthorns. ... performance tested 125 bulls and sold the top 80 to 100. What happened to J&H?? maybe another thread - huh?  J&H used alot of Alden bulls  too.

A "cujo descendent" was used AI in the herd my father managed ( MSU ) Hunsley and Harlan used two shorthorns in the commerical groups ...  I believe dad's favorite sire group even years later were the cujo s? 

Thanks for all the info guys. I thought he was something special but know I know he is. I love all the progeny pics. There is something very catchy about all his progeny. The fact that his mother was such a good cow is the cherry on the cake. It just goes o show tat functional genetics really are timeless. With the help of God if we're all alive in 20 years time and Steerplanet is going strong we'll still be talking about him LOL.

We owned the K-Kim Frontline 07M bull, and he was in my opinion the greatest sire that we have used in my lifetime. We bought him at the top of the K-Kim spring bull sale in 2003. Kevin used a lot of CCS Shoshone and absolutely loved the calves. To my knowledge he is really the only one that used Shoshone to any extent in the US. However, in my experience they were not hard calving. Frontline had an actual BW of 88 lbs and that is about where all of his offspring fell. I would never recommend using him on a heifer, but we A.I.'d several 3 year olds to him this year and don't expect any problems. However, I believe the best thing about these genetics are the performance. Frontline was the highest indexing bull in Kimmerling's contemporary group of bulls that year and his offspring are the same. I will try and post a picture of Frontline and some of his daughters.

Here is an attachment with a picture at the bottom of typical Frontline/ Shoshone offspring. Red, sound, easy keeping, and good.

wiseguy said:

Here is an attachment with a picture at the bottom of typical Frontline/ Shoshone offspring. Red, sound, easy keeping, and good.

Click to expand...

This the gal?

wiseguy said:

We owned the K-Kim Frontline 07M bull, and he was in my opinion the greatest sire that we have used in my lifetime. We bought him at the top of the K-Kim spring bull sale in 2003. Kevin used a lot of CCS Shoshone and absolutely loved the calves. To my knowledge he is really the only one that used Shoshone to any extent in the US. However, in my experience they were not hard calving. Frontline had an actual BW of 88 lbs and that is about where all of his offspring fell. I would never recommend using him on a heifer, but we A.I.'d several 3 year olds to him this year and don't expect any problems. However, I believe the best thing about these genetics are the performance. Frontline was the highest indexing bull in Kimmerling's contemporary group of bulls that year and his offspring are the same. I will try and post a picture of Frontline and some of his daughters.

Click to expand...

I would agree- based off what I saw at your place, when we purchased that heifer...  The bull we had, ended up being sired by the bull that Rutz's bought-- I'm think the 2nd or 3rd one they had... the fence jumper--- 

wes. how many daughters did you end up keeping from him?  do those 3 y.o.'s trace back to him?

None of the cows we bred trace back to Frontline, but we just had a linebed Frontline 1st calf heifer calve to Ar Su Lu Osage. Solid red bull , polled, 75 lbs at birth. I am excited. As far as daughters we probably have 10-12 out of the 40 cows in our herd. We are pretty much breeding anything that is not related back to him through A.I.

I remember Shoshone quite well, he was the 1997 Canadian National Champion when he won the Royal Winter Fair as a yearling in Bill Mcmahon string.

I never had any Shoshone calves myself, but I have seen offspring on many occasions. He definitely added muscle and a distinct smooth made pattern to his calves. He also tended to shorten up their front ends somewhat as well as change their skull shape and muscle to what I would consider to be a more true to type beef Shorthorn type head. These traits would lead me to believe that he would also add some fleshing ability.

I found it interesting that there is a son of CCS Shoshone selling in the Perth Bull Sale in Scotland on Feb 7th. He is out of our donor, New Beginnings Elsie's Jade ( who's sire and dam both came from okotoks Diamond Shorthorns). This bull is from a set of 50 embryos I sold to a Scottish breeder while I drove to Agribition a few years ago. The Scottish buyer wanted the embryos sent as quickly as possible to Scotland and was concerned that I would not send them until I received payment. I told him not to worry about it as it would take a few days to get the paperwork done to export them. Two days later, this guy walked up to my stall at Agribition and handed me a cheque for the embryos. He had decided that the best way to get the money to me, was to get on a plane and fly to Regina, SK. I have often thought about this, and sometimes wished everyone I sold cattle to was as eager to pay me as this guy was!!