Quantcast Shorty hf bulls










Author Topic: Shorty hf bulls  (Read 234588 times)

Offline sue

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
  • Karma 86
    • View Profile
    • www.lakesidecattle.com
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #405 on: October 13, 2010, 09:29:49 AM »
Are these Shorthorn bulls considered heifer bulls? 7026,Mission,JPJ, and Captain Obvious. In alot of ways these bulls seem to exude commercial acceptance in type. Where do you get Mission and 7026 semen? I don't know how these genetics would combine but if a breeder locked onto these bloodlines would they not be on a goldmine?
Here's the original post! 400 posts later we are definitely older and maybe a little wiser! I did say maybe. Lots of good cattle amongst the other stuff though.

I the last couple of years we have had a couple of phone calls for "native or dual purpose" semen. Any way I referred those new breeders to Wexvale Farms and there stash of two bulls called Wexvale Polar Bar and Roan Harvest Duke. I hope to see the new combination(s) in the near future. I know wexvale used a Duke son recently - Another options or tool to blend with but not solid red bulls.??
Alot of Wexvales breeding made it out west because HUB'S ( horned breeders) purchased loads of Wexvale Polled bulls. I know I came across one of the bulls in a old pedigree at ELBEES.
Wexvale Farms- still going strong in Michigan.
Registered Shorthorns & Shorthorn/Red Angus Composite Cattle. www.lakesidecattle.com

Offline r.n.reed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Karma 27
    • View Profile
    • www.kapercattle.com
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #406 on: October 13, 2010, 10:07:02 AM »
In answer to The Truths statement a crossbred maternal cow herd bred terminal is definitly a no brainer for a commercial cow herd.However I would want to buy my components from a seedstock operation that was focused on either the maternal or high performance rather than someone who was crossing the two types so as to have a higher degree of reliability in the traits I was hoping to add.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 10:14:32 AM by r.n.reed »
Gary Kaper

Offline Okotoks

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Karma 109
  • Diamond Nicola Susan 23N and Rising Legend
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Shorthorns
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #407 on: October 13, 2010, 12:15:33 PM »
In answer to The Truths statement a crossbred maternal cow herd bred terminal is definitly a no brainer for a commercial cow herd.However I would want to buy my components from a seedstock operation that was focused on either the maternal or high performance rather than someone who was crossing the two types so as to have a higher degree of reliability in the traits I was hoping to add.
You have a good point and I think the traits each breeder trys to focus on depends on first their environment then on the commercial breeders requirements in the area they are targeting. The more traits one can select for though the better chance of getting more market. If you have catlle with good structure, reasonable performance and calving ease you would cover off a lot of potential customers.

Offline CAB

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 4957
  • Karma 98
    • View Profile
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #408 on: October 13, 2010, 01:04:36 PM »
Can a person still get any semen out of Muridale Buster 14K? If so, where & what would it set a person back? Thanks, Brent

Offline sue

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
  • Karma 86
    • View Profile
    • www.lakesidecattle.com
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #409 on: October 13, 2010, 01:10:17 PM »
Can a person still get any semen out of Muridale Buster 14K? If so, where & what would it set a person back? Thanks, Brent

Check with Cattle visions- $50?? My favorite at Leveldale's ( last thurs visit) was a Robin. ( out of Robin 57 G, buster's dam.
Registered Shorthorns & Shorthorn/Red Angus Composite Cattle. www.lakesidecattle.com

Offline jaimiediamond

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 948
  • Karma 207
  • Diamond Prophecy 21P
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Shorthorns
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #410 on: October 13, 2010, 01:13:34 PM »
Can a person still get any semen out of Muridale Buster 14K? If so, where & what would it set a person back? Thanks, Brent

Check with Cattle visions- $50?? My favorite at Leveldale's ( last thurs visit) was a Robin. ( out of Robin 57 G, buster's dam.


Cattle visions are sold out of Muridale Buster apparently although they do have his son Muridale Buster 2nd 76P

CE 7.6 BW -5.7WW -1 YW 2
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 01:14:30 PM by jaimiediamond »

Offline trevorgreycattleco

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
  • Karma 160
  • 740- 815-4145 if you ever wanna talk cows.
    • View Profile
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #411 on: October 13, 2010, 01:16:31 PM »
In answer to The Truths statement a crossbred maternal cow herd bred terminal is definitly a no brainer for a commercial cow herd.However I would want to buy my components from a seedstock operation that was focused on either the maternal or high performance rather than someone who was crossing the two types so as to have a higher degree of reliability in the traits I was hoping to add.
thats what I was talking about. Thank u sir.
Open minds make better cows and people.

Offline sue

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
  • Karma 86
    • View Profile
    • www.lakesidecattle.com
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #412 on: October 13, 2010, 01:28:45 PM »
Can a person still get any semen out of Muridale Buster 14K? If so, where & what would it set a person back? Thanks, Brent
I pm'd another option for you- they will be in Louisville?
Registered Shorthorns & Shorthorn/Red Angus Composite Cattle. www.lakesidecattle.com

Offline jaimiediamond

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 948
  • Karma 207
  • Diamond Prophecy 21P
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Shorthorns
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #413 on: October 13, 2010, 01:36:05 PM »
In answer to The Truths statement a crossbred maternal cow herd bred terminal is definitly a no brainer for a commercial cow herd.However I would want to buy my components from a seedstock operation that was focused on either the maternal or high performance rather than someone who was crossing the two types so as to have a higher degree of reliability in the traits I was hoping to add.
thats what I was talking about. Thank u sir.

I am confused on why we have to limit ourselves to maternal or high performance?

 Isn't the purpose of breeding these cattle not to improve them? I am a firm believer that a calf born with a light birth weight can turn around and grow like a weed, and finish at 14 months for the packers.  That the heifers that are born with light birth weights can turn around show performance and still be strong on the maternal front.  That my bulls can be used by either the commercial man or the purebred breeder and produce calves that make them a profit.That the guy who feeds my steers out makes a profit and most importantly that I can look at my girls and see a easy fleshing high milking cow with a good udder because lets face it if I don't like looking at my herd what is the point? Perhaps I am greedy...

In our market the exotics are accomplishing the maternal traits (calving ease, milk), easy fleshing, while maintaining their growth and muscle.  This makes it important for me to produce a animal that can compete, one trait isn't enough.  Perhaps this won't work in every area.

Offline r.n.reed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Karma 27
    • View Profile
    • www.kapercattle.com
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #414 on: October 13, 2010, 02:06:00 PM »
jamiediamond,no short answer there but here is my take without taking up 2 pages,Selecting for maternal is not single trait selection and you can continue to improve and lock in those traits until you reach the optimum that works for your customer base.Terminal traits and maternal traits are antagonistic to each other and the differences between the english and continentals have been blurred.Shorthorns as an example look more continental in type and now and we are trying to find bulls we can breed heifers to.
Gary Kaper

Offline outspoken

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3713
  • Karma 10
  • BANNED
    • View Profile
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #415 on: October 13, 2010, 02:30:26 PM »
In answer to The Truths statement a crossbred maternal cow herd bred terminal is definitely a no brainer for a commercial cow herd.However I would want to buy my components from a seedstock operation that was focused on either the maternal or high performance rather than someone who was crossing the two types so as to have a higher degree of reliability in the traits I was hoping to add.

Agree..
This is what we all strive to produce... 
but where you contradict yourself if you are talking about Shorthorns...  You can't get two bulls and their descendants any further on the pendulum than TRUMP and JPJ, and how man people are mating these two lines together???  Sure the F1 cross b/w these two will likely produce something idealy perfect...  but what happens when you mate these offspring?- a whole bunch of hetrozygous F2 offspring that look nothing alike, and fit right in with the current day Shorthorn breed..  So the quick fix, really just sets you back in life- as you have made zero improvement but lost the most valuable thing... time!  I'm a firm believer that by mating two of the same 'medium' kind together, 99% of the time you get 'medium'...  but when you mate two opposite extremes- you may as well cast a quarter into a wishing well... 

In my herd, I prefer not to have either bull...  I think the cosmic benefits from both get outweighed with my outlook into the future-- and although maybe not acceptable RIGHT NOW becasue of an unknown pedigree- they will be down the road becasue they are outcross...  and they will have an endless possibility of mating options to the famed 2x+ Trump bred bulls via AI, and now the JPJ kick.. 

Offline r.n.reed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Karma 27
    • View Profile
    • www.kapercattle.com
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #416 on: October 13, 2010, 02:58:58 PM »
That is the Truth,couldn't of said it better myself!
Gary Kaper

Offline trevorgreycattleco

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
  • Karma 160
  • 740- 815-4145 if you ever wanna talk cows.
    • View Profile
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #417 on: October 13, 2010, 07:59:47 PM »
jamiediamond,no short answer there but here is my take without taking up 2 pages,Selecting for maternal is not single trait selection and you can continue to improve and lock in those traits until you reach the optimum that works for your customer base.Terminal traits and maternal traits are antagonistic to each other and the differences between the english and continentals have been blurred.Shorthorns as an example look more continental in type and now and we are trying to find bulls we can breed heifers to.
So why do shorties have a bw problem or concieved to have one? Have breeders in the past been selecting for to much growth? I honestly don't know. How did the breed (in general) get to resemble continentals when it is suppose to be a maternal breed? Why has the line been blurred so much between the two types? Is every breed guilty of chasing the all purpose cow to much instead of breeding the parts like Mikek (Keeneys Corner) suggest? Food for thought.
Open minds make better cows and people.

Offline aj

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 5221
  • Karma 144
  • BANNED
    • View Profile
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #418 on: October 13, 2010, 10:02:09 PM »
If you set up your herd to concentrate on maternal traits you have to do two things in my opinion. No. 1 is you have to cull ruthlessly. If Lisa Janes show heifer doesn't breed back every you sell her. If her heifer has a bad udder you dump them. If they have a bad disposition you dump them. Its almost more about eliminating the bad ones then selecting for good ones. I don't know if people still index cattle like they used to but if you concentrate on udders,milk,pelvic region, moderate birth weights, disposition, and weaning weights you have more than enough on the plate to concentrate on. The problem is in small herds that Lisa janes show heifer never gets culled cause she cost 5,000$ or whar ever. Good or bad or right or wrong that is the truth. Stayability is boring and you don't win ribbons for it but it is the no. 1 profit determining factor in a maternal situation. The ave purebred herd length is what 6 years. Its the length of a family 4-h herd length of lasting. If you look at someone lke Keith Lauers herd. Hell he's 100 years old(just kidding). He has making these common sense selections for decades. There has been all this selection going on there for years. All it takes is commitment and time and disipline. It just seems crazy people in maternal breeds pushing big yearling epds. You can't select for every trait out there. Its immpossible. You can't be everything to everbody. You have to set paramiters and hopes to concentrate on 3 or 4 traits then spend 10 years working this over. Select and cull both.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline shortdawg

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 6517
  • Karma 98
    • View Profile
Re: Shorty hf bulls
« Reply #419 on: October 13, 2010, 10:06:01 PM »
Good post AJ
Eph. 2:8-10

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
944 Views
Last post May 16, 2008, 08:39:53 PM
by Dooling1
4 Replies
1160 Views
Last post December 16, 2009, 06:59:52 PM
by feeder duck
13 Replies
2707 Views
Last post November 24, 2010, 12:00:24 PM
by ROMAX
15 Replies
4114 Views
Last post April 19, 2011, 09:53:23 PM
by JTM
1 Replies
460 Views
Last post November 23, 2013, 05:46:21 PM
by -XBAR-


Please Support our Premium Sponsors

Steer Planet Classifieds & Auctions

Select a BLOG