Show Calf Prices

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ChristaCheatham

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Just had a few questions on show calf prices. Would the prices go down because of all the farmers having trouble breaking even with the drought this year? Why do producers charge so much for "state quality" calves. Not saying the calf isn't worth $20,000, but isn't that a large price for something that you aren't sure of (winning Grand Champion at the state fair)? Do producers realize that most 4h showmen don't have that kind of money to buy a calf with... but they pour all of their time into a calf? But yet they still want $20,000 for a 425 pound calf... I guess people will pay that kind of money. Just wanted to know everyone's opinions. Is this what the show calf industry is all about??? Getting as much as you can for a calf and limiting the number of buyers? Just looking at this from a business standpoint. :)
 

Doc

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No , I don't think that the prices will be affected that much. Especially on the top end. The breds might be affected some.
As far the price goes , you're not assured of winning anything wether you pay $2k, $20k or $100k.
Yes, that is one of the things that the show calf industry is about. Trying to make a profit on the ones that you can. It will suprise you on how much you can have in an ET calf.
For example: Buy 3 sexed heifer eggs at $800/ea. Put them in a co-op herd and get 1 pregnancy. Buy calf at weaning for $1,100 as agreed upon. Go pick it up and have $250 in fuel(not counting wear and tear on truck or your time). So at this point you have $3,750 in the calf. Register the calf is another $40. Take you at least 30 days to get the calf ready to show to prospective buyers( that's being conservative) , so another $100 in feed and such. So we are now at $3,890. Now you sell that calf for $5,000. That is a 22% gross profit. Not that great a profit margin. If you have to wait until next spring to sell that same heifer at a beef expo, she better bring some serious change to even break even. And you sure hope that she is good enough to bring that kind of money. JMO.
 

ChristaCheatham

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Doc- thanks! It makes a lot more sense...now I can know somewhat if the seller is being fair on his price or ripping me off!
 

knabe

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You don't know if the calf is an Et calf

Have you ever told a buyer that you don't as much as they offered?

I don't get why people constantly worry price.

That's the way capitalism works.

Would we rather have every calf have a profit ceiling?


 

I-69cc

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Nov 16, 2010
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I want know why i didnt get any of that "Obama Money" those ladies from Detroit were all over the news dancin about to buy my kid some calves!  :)
 

Doc

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knabe said:
You don't know if the calf is an Et calf

Would we rather have every calf have a profit ceiling?

You're right , I didn't know if it was an ET calf or not. I think it was a hypothetical scenario. I was just usng that as an example. By the same setup , if you ended up with a heifer that was only worth $1,500 , no one is going to go ahead and pay you $3890 just so you can break even. I mean I don't see any problem with getting as much as you can for your calves. You can always offer them less than what they are asking. They can either take it or not. But I always say that "1 offer is better than a 1,000 lookers."
 

ChristaCheatham

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Not saying I constantly worry about price. Just saying that I couldn't understand why people market calves $10,000 to $20,000. It makes more sense knowing what goes in to "creating" the calf.
 

savaged

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There are not many in the grand scheme that really sell for 20K.  There are a lot of club calves that are marketed and sold for 2K to 5K and do very well.
 

ChristaCheatham

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savaged said:
There are not many in the grand scheme that really sell for 20K.   There are a lot of club calves that are marketed and sold for 2K to 5K and do very well.

Very true. I was just throwing a number out there. The problem for me is probably finding a calf in that lower price range and "seeing" what he will turn in to as a fat steer/heifer.
 

CAB

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Corning,Iowa
The simple truth of the matter is that as long as PPL will pay whatever amount for a calf, the producers that have themselves in a position to get the higher prices are going to take it. The prices are being set in the on-line sales by bidders.
 

hamburgman

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The show cattle world seems devoid of economics on multiple levels.  There are few places where the cattle made all the money for the owner and still makes all the money for the owner.
 

vc

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You could look at show calves kind of like art, it is not based on cost it is based on what others think they are worth and are willing to pay for them.
Cattle.com recently had the data posted on their web page, the average show steer is selling for $3100, and has for the last 3 years.
I think you can get a good one for less, you will need to shop around and cover some highway to find the best deal.
Set the amount that plan on spending and find the best calf for that price that you can.
 

jsuhr

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Jul 1, 2011
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Wisconsin
Style seems to make animals that much more spendy which is justified in the purpose of the animal, to show. But what we need to focus on is TRULY the purpose of these animals and that is to produce a safe, and healthy product. We can't eat hair or big bones, so why not look for animal that will serve its purpose, make a tasty steak and purchase the animal at a reasonable price. No one needs to pay 10K for a great animal. Go look in your pasture and be proud of what you have. Personally I don't even consider looking at some of the big name sellers in my area because I know I can't afford their animals, I just look at my budget.
 

vc

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You either get into the project for the experience of raising a market animal and making a little profit or you try and be competitive, It is very hard to do both in most areas.
In our county you can buy a commercial steer, feed it commercial feed, get a blue ribbon, go to auction and sell the animal. You may win your class if your animal is under 1240 or over 1350, if you are in the 1240 - 1350 range you will be at or near the bottom of your class with a commercial steer. The kids with Competitive steers dominate this weight range.

You shop around find the best for your money and give it a shot, do not over extend, stay in your budget and if the moons align, good things might happen. Spend more than you really can and there will always be one better than yours.

Side note
Last year there were 65 head, this year 95 head, I figured there would maybe be 45. The economy definitely hit our kids at the fair this year.
This year our prices were very week for our fair, the average was under $2 a pound, there are no mills in our area to buy bulk, most kids feed bagged feed, that averaged $15 a bag. Most calves are purchased in late September into early November, even with a calf purchased for market price, with the high cost of feed they lost money. Even the hogs, lambs and goats were low, usually if the beef is low hogs are high and vice verse. Other than the Grand Champion, Reserve Champ and a few kids who had buyers that pay, it was very sad, there was one calf that sold for $1.10. I bet the kid did not get the money back he paid for the steer, let alone the feed.
 

Tallcool1

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I understand exactly what you are getting at.  You want to be competitive but you either don't want to or can't spend the kind of money it takes to buy the great one.  I sympathize with you.  It is a money game, no question about it.

There are some things that you can do to gain an edge.

1.  Buy your calves LATE.  Don't get out there and try to compete with the big money that is being thrown around during peak season.  I know, you think that all of the good ones will be gone.  They won't.  I guarantee it.  There are steers that are slow starters, there are steers that don't get paid for, and there are steers that traders pick up late.  Wait until the very last possible moment that you can.  Everyone will have bought their steers already.  PLUS, you don't have to feed them during that interim 4 months.  And the older the calves are, the less they change.  Nobody talks about the $10,000 steer that never makes it to a show because he comes unwound when he hits 650#. 

2.  Don't be afraid of the "big name" steer traders.  I understand that they sell $30,000 steers.  I know all of that.  But they also sell $2,500 steers, and A LOT of them.  If you hit one of those guys late, and tell them what you have to spend, they will exceed your expectations.  Some of these guys sell 400-500 show steers a year.  When they "expire", the next stop is the sale barn.  I don't know what part of the country you are in, but you will be surprised if you just call them.

3.  Stay away from prospect type steers.  The expensive steers are expensive because they can win as feeder calves, prospects, progress, and fat steers.  They are the complete package.  Buy fat steer types.  They will be competitive enough at the early shows, and you can sneak up on someone late if you do a good job.

4.  Buy genetically good haired steers.  If you can put hair on a fat steer, you will have NO problem finding someone to help you clip that calf.  Everyone loves to help on a good haired steer.

5.  Feed your steer like a fat steer.  Don't drag him all over 4 states to 20 shows.  Take him out once or twice early, and maybe once about 60 days before your fat show.  NOTHING covers up flaws like a nice even coat of fat cover.  Add a little hair, clip a little "pretty" into him, and you will be surprised. 

6.  Buy an easy feeding steer.  If you buy a big bellied, chubby steer, everything else will just kind of fall into place.  You can get him fat early, and keep him that way all the way through.  He will never have to be on a super "hot" ration so hair growth will come easier, and they are just cheaper to feed and maintain. 

7.  Buy one that can move.  Make sure he is loose moving, and he has to fill his tracks when he weighs 800# or he absolutely will not when he weighs #1300.  A super sound steer absolutely can beat a more powerful steer in a fat show, especially if you can put the hair on him.

8.  WORK.

Just my opinion.  Maybe some of this will help you.  Hang in there.







 

jlingle

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Mar 10, 2009
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SW Oklahoma
Tallcool1 said:
I understand exactly what you are getting at.  You want to be competitive but you either don't want to or can't spend the kind of money it takes to buy the great one.  I sympathize with you.  It is a money game, no question about it.

There are some things that you can do to gain an edge.

1.  Buy your calves LATE.  Don't get out there and try to compete with the big money that is being thrown around during peak season.  I know, you think that all of the good ones will be gone.  They won't.  I guarantee it.  There are steers that are slow starters, there are steers that don't get paid for, and there are steers that traders pick up late.  Wait until the very last possible moment that you can.  Everyone will have bought their steers already.  PLUS, you don't have to feed them during that interim 4 months.  And the older the calves are, the less they change.  Nobody talks about the $10,000 steer that never makes it to a show because he comes unwound when he hits 650#. 

2.  Don't be afraid of the "big name" steer traders.  I understand that they sell $30,000 steers.  I know all of that.  But they also sell $2,500 steers, and A LOT of them.  If you hit one of those guys late, and tell them what you have to spend, they will exceed your expectations.  Some of these guys sell 400-500 show steers a year.  When they "expire", the next stop is the sale barn.  I don't know what part of the country you are in, but you will be surprised if you just call them.

3.  Stay away from prospect type steers.  The expensive steers are expensive because they can win as feeder calves, prospects, progress, and fat steers.  They are the complete package.  Buy fat steer types.  They will be competitive enough at the early shows, and you can sneak up on someone late if you do a good job.

4.  Buy genetically good haired steers.  If you can put hair on a fat steer, you will have NO problem finding someone to help you clip that calf.  Everyone loves to help on a good haired steer.

5.  Feed your steer like a fat steer.  Don't drag him all over 4 states to 20 shows.  Take him out once or twice early, and maybe once about 60 days before your fat show.  NOTHING covers up flaws like a nice even coat of fat cover.  Add a little hair, clip a little "pretty" into him, and you will be surprised. 

6.  Buy an easy feeding steer.  If you buy a big bellied, chubby steer, everything else will just kind of fall into place.  You can get him fat early, and keep him that way all the way through.  He will never have to be on a super "hot" ration so hair growth will come easier, and they are just cheaper to feed and maintain. 

7.  Buy one that can move.  Make sure he is loose moving, and he has to fill his tracks when he weighs 800# or he absolutely will not when he weighs #1300.  A super sound steer absolutely can beat a more powerful steer in a fat show, especially if you can put the hair on him.

8.  WORK.

Just my opinion.  Maybe some of this will help you.  Hang in there.

This is why the internet is valuable.  Sure, there are plenty of other things you could add to this advice to be successful, but this is GOOD STUFF right here!!!!  You can't always outspend people, but you CAN ALWAYS OUTWORK THEM.
 

ChristaCheatham

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Aug 8, 2011
Messages
302
TalCool1-Thanks soooo much for the advice... it really helps! I will post a pic of my steer this evening and see what opinions you have on him. My friend has already taunted me about the other shorthorn steer that supposedly is good even though I saw him at the weigh-in, in February and he weighed a good 200-300 pounds less than mine..... This year I've worked extremely hard from feeding, rinsing, blowing, cleaning every day and I just want it to pay off soooo bad. I don't want to put all that time and $ to be laying in the dust. Our fair is not that competitive so maybe I'll have a shot.Being competitive at showing calves is definitely one of the hardest thing I've ever done. Oh btw- when should I look for my calf for next year.... I want to look early but you told me that this may not be the best case. Late september???
 

twistedhshowstock

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Nacogdoches, TX
Tallcool hit the nail on the head there! To be honest I dont see a ton of people marketing steers in the $20,000 range.  Honestly most of the people that have a steer that is truly of that caliber are going to put him in a sale and let the big spenders fight it out over him, they ussually end up getting more money out of them that way.  I am not saying it doesnt happen, just saying it doesnt happen as much as some let on.
The show cattle industry isnt necessarily driven by the cattle market.  Yes when cattle prices go up then the cost of those low end show steers go up because producers dont want to put the extra expense of feeding them as show prospects into steers and then sell them at the same price that they could have gotten at the sale barn on a cheaper feed bill.  Value of show cattle is more akin to things like paintings, collectibles, antiques, etc.  In that the price on them depends on the quality and how badly someone wants one, and what they are willing to pay.
But you dont have to spend a ton, do you know what drives the price of a lot of the highdollar steers that steerjocks sell? Convenience.  A big name steer jock can price a steer a lot higher than some people because there are going to be a ton of people coming through his place looking for the good one that dont want to put the time into the search.  So they find a jock they trust that has a reputation for selling good ones and they will go to his place and pay more money for the calf, they are also willing to pay more in those situations because they often get some political pull with the name of the jock and the jocks ussually offer fitting for the cattle they sell at the cattles big shows.
But if your willing to get out and search, you can find good cattle cheap.  There are a lot of good cattle produced by families that arent really trying to become big name producers, they are simply trying to maybe produce one or t two good ones for their kids to show and selll enough calves to help pay for their show hobby, those families can be great places to find good cattle at reasonable prices. The other thing I always say is go in  knowing what your budget is, and dont go look at the cattle that you know are out of your price range.  If you do go to a big name persons place to look and you know your budget is $2500 then dont ask to go look at the cooler where the $20,000 calves are, because you will inevitably end up comparing a good $2500 calf to that $20000 calf and be very disappointed.
I also very much agree with waiting as late as possible if you know you have a tight budget, not only to cattle tend to get cheaper if they havent sold as ownership deadlines approach, and not only that but the later you wait to buy means the shorter time you have to feed which equals money saved on feed that you may be able to add to your calf purchase budget.
For example, I would venture a big bet that a lot of steers in Texas got a lot cheaper yesterday since Saturday was the deadline to validate for major shows! With the exception of a few that may go to OK or LA most of these calves are going to be priced at County Fair prices now, because as those deadlines start ticking past a lot of them will end up at the sale barn.
 

ChristaCheatham

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Aug 8, 2011
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Sired by Sin City. Eating several flakes of alfalfa mixed hay and about 2 five gallon buckets of feed with corn, increased amounts of barley/oats with molasses, cottonseed. Show is July 30th.
 

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mick rems

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Mar 14, 2011
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i agree with everyone that said to search. this site is actually really good in september and october even into november. some of the ads be from big names and others are from small names. know what you want and stick to it whether its price, muscle, guts, soundness, eye appeal, hair, or any combinations. my steer this yr i got off the classifieds. i had to drive a bit. i got him for a really good price. and he's doin good. took him to a few shows. won his class at jr nationals, and a smaller show. was reserve champ for the breed at the smaller show, and also took second in class at another smaller show. hes got guts, hair, eye appeal, decent amount of muschle, he walks like a kitten, and he's a super easy feeder. the guy also came and clipped him and paid for a fitter for show day at jr nationals. the guys got an up and coming name in the industry, he worked for lautners, and just sold one of his calves to lautner. you just gotta search a bit. i clicked on A LOT of links before i found one that i really liked, and actually got. i first got my steer in mid november, by the time we could get to indianna to pick him up.
and again the big names got cheaper cattle that are able to win shows, just gotta know the shows and how to pick em. steer two yrs ago was a et, i got him for 1200 but his 2 bros in the same sale one sold for 3200 and another sold for 5200. my steer was still able to get reserve overall. and that was at a bigger name place.
 
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