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Author Topic: Show Cattle Ethics  (Read 18252 times)

Offline Olson Family Shorthorns

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2016, 05:37:31 PM »
As if the pioneers of showing cattle in the 18th and 19th centuries didn't feed their prize animals anything other than grass. Get a grip.

It may seem like a hobby to you, and it is niche, but some people make a very nice living from show cattle. I primarily make my living selling show cattle and consulting on the care of show cattle. Those checks pay the bills just the same as the ones from the sale barn.
Shorthorn cattle and genetic opportunities available at all times. (515) 520 1972

Offline aj

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2016, 05:51:11 PM »
It is a quite a racket........I'll admit.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline Olson Family Shorthorns

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2016, 05:57:19 PM »
So is any profession outside of grassfed cow/calf, row crops, and manufacturing good enough for you? Just because something is somewhat niche doesn't mean that it isn't a real profession.
Shorthorn cattle and genetic opportunities available at all times. (515) 520 1972

Offline Show stopper 95

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2016, 06:03:09 PM »
Does a guy who sells sportscars count as inferior in your book aj? Just because people don't drive them to work every day. Is the manufacturer or salesman less of a person because they made a niche product or a "hobby" product as you'd describe it
Good, better, best. Never let it rest. Until your good is better and your better is best. -Tim Duncan

Braden House- Big House Show Cattle Iola Tx 9796761450. Charolais, Charolais x, Americans,  Canadian Red Angus, and Club Calves.

Offline aj

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2016, 07:37:04 PM »
Historically.........the best way to counter my posts.......is to demonize every post I post. Knabe takes care of that. As far as my post's being tramatic to tender hearted children showing cattle.........they have safe spaces on almost every campus now adays. So children can hide from any philosophy that is not lock step with their own. The beef industry is yuge in the United States.......the show calf is also a viable industry.......but they are becoming separate industries. That is all I try to point out. The best way to get me banned is to get at least 5 members on here to complain to a moderator. Don't go through Jason though cause last I knew we see pretty much eye to eye.  Attack attack attack untill you catch me drunk and pissed off some night.......I will retaliate and get banned. Its a pretty simple formula.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline Show stopper 95

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2016, 07:40:02 PM »
Took that to heart pretty fast

Go to a safe zone Count to 10 and come back
Good, better, best. Never let it rest. Until your good is better and your better is best. -Tim Duncan

Braden House- Big House Show Cattle Iola Tx 9796761450. Charolais, Charolais x, Americans,  Canadian Red Angus, and Club Calves.

Offline Olson Family Shorthorns

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2016, 07:44:18 PM »
This is attacking you? Hmm. Okay.

The show ring is about as far removed now as it ever has been from commercial cattle. Over 150 years of cattle being bred for exhibition. What you're saying is not new. I'm not scared of it because in my part of the world, my show cattle have almost the same pressure as the "commercial" herds around here....they all have it pretty easy. And mine grow more and have better structure and look better than most of the mutts around. Sure, I can't make a living by taking the heifers I sell privately to the sale barn, but I like to think I'm smart enough to figure out smething else if it comes to that.

I'm legitimately trying to have a discourse with you, and you say it's an attack. It's a rebuttal against your railing against my profession and passion. If your excuse for being a turd sometimes is being drunk and angry, I'd suggest sleeping it off instead.
Shorthorn cattle and genetic opportunities available at all times. (515) 520 1972

Offline BroncoFan

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2016, 07:51:15 PM »
I believe show industry can be whatever people want it to be and not the same for every kid. I've seen kids get beat. It learned far more than kids that get all the work for them. I've heard of people starting a herd just off showing a few heifers or steers. It's a great niche market and one that even people who weren't born on a ranch can get into. Farmers and ranchers are getting older so let's hope that there's a 4H/FFA kid here and there that will be smart enough to keep the industry evolving to feed this world's population.

Offline Tallcool1

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2016, 04:08:09 PM »
Historically.........the best way to counter my posts.......is to demonize every post I post. Knabe takes care of that. As far as my post's being tramatic to tender hearted children showing cattle.........they have safe spaces on almost every campus now adays. So children can hide from any philosophy that is not lock step with their own. The beef industry is yuge in the United States.......the show calf is also a viable industry.......but they are becoming separate industries. That is all I try to point out. The best way to get me banned is to get at least 5 members on here to complain to a moderator. Don't go through Jason though cause last I knew we see pretty much eye to eye.  Attack attack attack untill you catch me drunk and pissed off some night.......I will retaliate and get banned. Its a pretty simple formula.

You don't have to get all teary eyed and whiney about it aj!  It is an open forum, and I have the same right to freedom of speech that you do.

Once again, I am not questioning your right to be involved with these threads.  I am questioning WHY you would want to. 

This forum is clearly not in alignment with your beliefs.  I am still puzzled by your motivation for wanting to participate.

It isn't a personal attack any more than your comments toward the show steer industry are.  I don't take your comments personally, and certainly hope that you don't take mine personally either.  You certainly deserve some degree of credit for being able to carry on a cattle operation and being able to do what you love to do. 

Offline vc

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2016, 05:00:08 PM »
Our fair had its champion drive last night, before the grand champion of each species is selected the judge will give a little speech. The lamb/goat judge calls himself a first generation agi, his parents bought him a pen of rabbits when he was 9, he went from there.

He stressed the importance of the lessons kids learn through showing, along with the standard responsibility and hard work there are other lessons, some kids have the resources other do not, those who do not: can whine about it say the others are cheaters, they buy their wins or they can go out and work hard, make contacts and put themselves in a better position to compete. These are lessons you will never learn in school or even sports.

I think people like AJ who use that 1% percent who get handed a halter as there go to what the show industry is about and they forget about the 49 to 59% who start out small make contacts earn the respect of their breeders, bust their butts to make the best of their situation and push to get their animal to reach its potential. AJ is like the other 40 to 50% buy the cheapest animal, feed the cheapest feed, spend an hour a week with their project and just keep whining about the others and never really get it. There is only one champion at the show, but depending on what you make of your experience determines if you come out of it a winner or a losers regardless of how you placed.

As far as the original post, I do not think the seller has any obligation to refund the buyer, but know of many who would do something to help out with the next project. Terminal animals being pushed to their max or past it, the risk is always there. We have been there, great calf just fell apart at the end, our breeder kicked in a grand as an add on at the auction.

Offline aj

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2016, 08:00:15 AM »
All excellent points........I guess I have two rebuttal comments. The first one.........I would be scared to death to eat meat from a show steer today. There are so may additives and gunk and stuff that are thrown at these cattle. The second one.......I don't get to town very often but out at Denver one time.........I heard the judge give a speech just before he slapped the winning steer. He said something like this barn is filled with the future leaders of the beef industry and these cattle are the best the industry has to offer. I almost started crying and then I started laughing. 90% of the cattle in the barn were carriers of lethal genetic defects.........the fitters out numbered the showers 5 to one.......I guess that these would be my two main concerns. Its not a blanket assault on the premise of youth shows.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline Tallcool1

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2016, 05:16:39 PM »
All excellent points........I guess I have two rebuttal comments. The first one.........I would be scared to death to eat meat from a show steer today. There are so may additives and gunk and stuff that are thrown at these cattle. The second one.......I don't get to town very often but out at Denver one time.........I heard the judge give a speech just before he slapped the winning steer. He said something like this barn is filled with the future leaders of the beef industry and these cattle are the best the industry has to offer. I almost started crying and then I started laughing. 90% of the cattle in the barn were carriers of lethal genetic defects.........the fitters out numbered the showers 5 to one.......I guess that these would be my two main concerns. Its not a blanket assault on the premise of youth shows.

Now there are some points in here that I agree with.

The lethal gene carrier doesn't bother me, but I see how it may bother others. I believe that genetic progress will eventually handle the TH and PH deal.

However, not wanting to eat one of these steers...good point. The supplements don't bother me mostly because they don't bother the FDA. The "foreign substances" do bother me. It is now to the point that many packing houses won't take these cattle anymore. I'm not just talking about Majors either. I'm talking about County Fairs! 

The other point I agree with is the 5:1 fitter to exhibitor quote. Shows are trying to get control of this, but it is harder than it sounds. Traders are powerful and get signed up as "Assistant 4H Club Leaders so they can fit at fairs. They also have kids showing. That is tough too. 2016 will mark the first year that the Nebraska State Fair will no fitting. These show officials are just tired of this cat and mouse game.

I fear that the no fitting rule is going to widen the gap between haves and have nots. We used to see some pretty good cattle in good homes that could run at the high end steers with some hard work and skill. Not anymore. I think it's gonna hurt my kids. But in all honesty, I don't blame these show officials.

aj, I welcome this kind of discussion. You have a lifetime of knowledge that needs to be shared. Share some of the positive with us, not just the negative.

Offline vc

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2016, 02:36:09 PM »
I really do not know how a steer that is a TH carrier has any effect on is value as a meat animal. Stress in hogs could affect the meat and I have no idea what sheep or goats might have as far a genetic defects, but I doubt they affect the carcass.

I do not know what you all feed your calves but we fed calf-manna and Stabilized Rice Bran, must have really screwed up the meat, they graded prime. The guy I work for/grew up showing with family buys 2 steers and 2 hogs every year, have for 40 years, cant eat store bought anymore just doesn't taste the same, i'm sure it is because the feed yard does not use any implants or supplements. Most the kids at county fair would not know about the additives that would be banned, it is hard enough to get them to worm on a schedule.

I will give you that some people are less than ethical, if I suspect that I simply do not buy that animal. We do bring them home feed them for a few weeks before the go, seems to help them relax and settle down prior to processing, and I guess if they had something in their system they should not it would help.   

Offline knabe

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2016, 03:01:33 PM »
Historically.........the best way to counter my posts.......is to demonize every post I post. Knabe takes care of that.


historically, the best way to counter your posts is with the truth.  you bad mouth show cattle endlessly, then take a carrier to denver.


you demonize every post about show cattle. every opportunity. the best way to counter your posts is to expose your hypocrisy that you took a carrier to denver, you tout a shorthorn herd, yet your herd bull is a mongrel, just like your herd, you have typo's on a prominent bull on your website. you have very little to stand on except to demonize the show industry and me for pointing out the truth and your hypocrisy.


pretty simple. you have never had an answer for the truth. oh wait, yes you do, get drunk and post swear words.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 03:13:18 PM by knabe »
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline knabe

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Re: Show Cattle Ethics
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2016, 03:10:50 PM »
The first one.........I would be scared to death to eat meat from a show steer today. i agree plus many don't grade in smaller shows. There are so may additives and gunk and stuff that are thrown at these cattle. The second one.......I don't get to town very often but out at Denver one time.........I heard the judge give a speech just before he slapped the winning steer. He said something like this barn is filled with the future leaders of the beef industry and these cattle are the best the industry has to offer. I almost started crying and then I started laughing. 90% of the cattle in the barn were carriers of lethal genetic defects. i'm assuming you turned in samples for the test........the fitters out numbered the showers 5 to one.......I guess that these would be my two main concerns. Its not a blanket assault on the premise of youth shows. it is a blanket statement that you took a carrier to denver while criticizing everyone else who does. it's pretty clear you have very little to offer.
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

 

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