Sick calf question

OK, I need some help. My neighbor has a calf that I need some help problem solving on. First, let me start by saying, my neighbor DOES NOT vaccinate, nor, in my opinion, feed her cattle enough (they have about 13 cows running with a bull year round and calf whenever the cows pleases). So, they bought a day old half Angus half dairy black bull calf in April. Now, according them them, they bottle fed the calf twice a day for 60 days, then kicked him out with the cows hoping he would start sucking on one of the cows. If he came up to the barn, they would give him a little grain. So I get a call on yesterday because he is down and will not get up. When I get there, he is literally skin and bones, way skinnier than any dairy calf I have ever seen and I just assume he is dead because he is flat out. They noticed Saturday that he did not come up when they called him, and found him laying on the ground not getting up so they brought him up to the barn and started giving him a bottle. He would sit up for a bottle, but go right back down after sucking the bottle. So I get the call yesterday to come look at him (they do not want any more "bills" in him so no vet). I get a bottle of electrolytes to tube him (he is extremely dehydrated and has diarrhea), but his owner swears he will suck a bottle, he just can not get him to sit up to take it. The calf looks dead to me, but I go in and roll him up on his chest and he takes the entire bottle (sucking, not tubing) with gusto  ??? Then he stays in that position for several minutes before he flops back over, and proceeds to thrash around like he is running on his side. I swear it was death throws, and tell the neighbor that I will back at noon to check on him. I gave him 4 CC Baytril, (they gave him 2 sulfa boluses on Sunday). Back at noon, expecting a dead calf, and he is in the same position, just rotated around from the thrashing. This time, I gave him a bottle of powdered milk since I figure he is starving. He drank it with gusto with me propping him up on my legs. That time he stayed up for several minutes before I left. Last night, his owners reported that with assistance, he got up and walked around for several minutes looking for another bottle of milk. I am shocked he is even alive (still has pure water stools - yellow). So I go over this morning to check, and he is back to the same position and will not sit up. After a bottle of milk, he will stay propped up and look at you like he wants more. I had the owner give another bottle of electrolytes at noon, which he took with gusto again. I go back tonight to check, and once again he is laying flat and not getting up. With lots of effort, I get him propped up on my leg and he takes the milk bottle with gusto, but flops back over when he is done and does the scramble. OK, I am thinking he needs more calories  ??? So I get a handful of grain and offer it to him and he eats it with some aggression, about a cup full. I try to get him to drink water but no go. Now, there is bright red blood in his stools (still water), so is that because of the irritated digestive system or should I treat him for Coccidiosis?
I am at a loss here for what is truly going on. The guy has a tremendous will to live, so I am willing to keep trying as long as he is. Can starvation cause this? Any ideas or suggestions on where to go from here? Thanks for any help!

In my opinion those are the kind of people that don't need to own cattle because they make the rest of us look bad. Shame on them. If they are irresponsible enough to let a poor calf get that bad they need not own any cattle. How can you expect a bottle calf to just go out and find a cow to nurse? Most cows don't go for that. I know this isn't your fault but maybe you suggest they sell those cattle. It sounds exactly.like.starvation and if nothing else is wrong it could take weeks to.get back to normal.

If their is blood in the stool and its starvation it may be GI trauma and tissue sloughing. As the body breaks down the GI Tract breaks down. I am not a vet. I would suggest you take the animal home. I don't believe those people are feeding it either. Sad sad sad!!!
That baby has to be taken back slow on food. Over feeding can cause damage as well. Again no vet here. I can only tell you what I have seen in humans. Usually our cattle are said to be on the robust side. I like my girls healthy. Electrolytes excellent idea. I do not know if I would introduce grain an til the baby can tolerate the milk. I would seek the opinion of a vet. Although, if a vet suspected starvation they might not be able to keep the animal.

Now, there is bright red blood in his stools (still water), so is that because of the irritated digestive system or should I treat him for Coccidiosis?

Coccidiosis was my first guess! Sounds like maybe he was weakened and picked it up. Maybe he doesn't have it, but this is only the first reason I would never bring this calf home with me to treat further! I have heard Cocci can stay in your soil and effect future generations.

Man, that's a sad situation. It sounds as though ur doing about all you can do. I would have to be thinking ur doing the right things. This is gonna require some patience and a lot of hope! I think it IS his will to live that's kept him alive this long. I'm not real sure about the coccidiosis...that's usually a blackish, bloody stool. Bright red sounds like fresh blood and maybe is a sign of tissue sloughing from irritation. I don't think I've ever seen one starved to death, or that close, but he's obviously malnourished and dehydrated. I would think maybe more frequent feedings of less than normal amounts might be better than twice a day feedings of normal quantities of feed/milk. Keep him on the electrytes & try to stop the scouring with something like Kaopectin...it's basically Pepto Bismol for calves. Comes in a gallon jug, and it's pink...looks just like Pepto Bismol! Get the biggest syringe you can find, pour some Kaopectin in a container you can draw it out of & with no needle on the syringe, draw it up full & drench him orally with as much as the label calls for. It stops the scouring pretty quick, and if you don't do something to stop that, everything your doing is going right through him.

I commend you, my man. I wouldn't be able to give up on him either...I never can. But they sure can seem hopeless sometimes. I'm sure you've had the conversation with the owner about the notion to turn him out and expect some cow in the herd to just adopt him?...what a completely asinine thing to do!...Geez. Good luck...I think your doing about all you can do. There's no quick fix on this one.

The sulfa boluses should have addressed the possible Coccidia. It sounds like symptoms of/from starvation to me also. I agree with Oh Breeder about bringing him back slowly with a good milk replacer. It's going to be  a little hard to not want to over feed the poor calf.

I agree with several feedings of less than the normal amount for a few days.  Also, get some probiotic into him daily.  Probably one with some vitamins and minerals like Vita Charge.  CAB is right that the sulfa boluses should have taken care of any coccidia.  The kaopectin is a good idea too.  Good luck!

DL, I was hoping you would chime in (but wished for a little more advice). I am trying to convince said neighbors to get rid of the cows and just buy feeders in the spring and sell in the fall (to manage grass), that way there is no care needed (or minimal care). They use the 13 cows and bull as a tax right off, so they could do the same with feeders...
How long do dairy bottle calves have to have milk for? It has been so long since I was on a dairy, and I was on the cow side not the calf side. I have never raised a bottle calf, so I am clueless but I do not that a baby of any mammalian species needs more than just grass at 60 days of age. The guy that sold them the calf said to put him on a bottle for 60 days, is that normal?

Anyway, back to the calf. I took care of him this morning, and he perked his head up when I came in. I went with the advice received here and at the local ag center and gave him some Kaopectate (for scours) and probios paste, He sat up to suck his bottle (which had the pink stuff in it and half the amount of milk), and then proceeded to eat another handful or two of grain. He sat upright the entire time I was there, which is a huge improvement. He did not scour while I was there, and I saw no yellow puddles, so I am unsure if he is still scoured or just out of juice. I am going back at noon to give him another electrolyte bottle with some milk (half bottle?), or should I put anything else in it?  I have some Vita Charge (I think in a bolus), I can try that tonight or do you think that is too much for one day and maybe tomorrow?  I agree, I think it is simply malnourishment and the owners are just clueless and have too busy of lives to deal with a bottle calf. I think they now realize this, they have a big heart (they have about 8 dogs or so, rescues and such) and not a lot of  money, and just lead too busy of a life to have a long term commitment with a bottle calf. I will try to take a photo of him at noon and post it so you can see. He sure has a strong will to live. I just hope there is no other issue that is preventing him from becoming mobile, or all this is for nothing.
And I am not going to bring him here to my place, because if he does have something I am being careful not to spread it here!

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice. I really appreciate it.

If the baby can't rob milk from a cow does it have access to water? Is the tank to high. If you have an orphan calf in with 100 milking mammas they can almost always find one cow that will let them rob milk. If not they gotta get water also somehow. Just saying.

AJ, that is a really good point! They have a pond, so that is probably where he is getting his water. One note made is that he never hung out with the cows, and was always alone. They had hopped he would buddy up with the herd, but he never did. Not sure why, but the pond is far away from the barn where the water is located. The cows roam over about 25 acres.
I went to check him at noon, and he seems much better. He was laying flat when I got there, but with a little assistance was able to prop him up and get him to take a half of bottle of electrolytes. He did not want grain or hay, but stayed in that position until I left. There was a small pile of stool behind him, consistency of paste. So that is promising. Here are some pics, the first I took when I got there, the second after he ate.

God bless you FSR, but I have to say that I think it would be better for all if they rented their grass out to someone else. JMO. What does the rest of their stock look like? Just curious as to whether this is an isolated case or not.

That picture breaks my heart and then really pisses me off!!!  How could those people look at that calf and not know something was wrong???  God bless you for your efforts.  I am pulling for the little guy!

I had to walk away from the screen and collect myself, before I could post.  I hope you get him on his feet ASAP and if not get them to put him down.
If I ever let an animal get to that point, I would have to kick my own ---. I know better, these people sound like they do not, not an excuse just an observation.

Good luck and I want to thank you for helping the calf out, it is nice to know good people are still out there.

Bless his heart! So sad! We lost to bottle calves this year that people brought to my kids to try to save. We saved one and she is now 6 months old and our angus heifers will not let her around them so we put her in a lot we have with a mare shed in it and she is doing great. You are a great person to take your time to try to save this calf. I just pray that if he makes it they will take care of him or find him a good home.

This probably a different deal but I got subpoena'd to testify against a guy starving cows a couple years back. Complaints made to a sheriffs office is on record. If enough complaints are recorded a county attorney can file a case. One thing in the case I testified in the guy got off with a 3,500 $ fine.....because an autopsy wasn't  performed on any of the 5 dead cows. Without an autopsy a judge can't really say an expert concured with the starvation part of the deal. Something to think about.

CAB said:

God bless you FSR, but I have to say that I think it would be better for all if they rented their grass out to someone else. JMO. What does the rest of their stock look like? Just curious as to whether this is an isolated case or not.

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The rest of the cattle are "average" compared to our fat cattle! Spring is good for them, but I wonder how they are going to do this summer - we have had no rain nor grass growth for a long time now. In the winter they get pretty thin, but they have not lost one. My husband and I always grumble how we "over care" for our cattle, put a lot of effort and money, and they have almost NO input and come out looking good at sale time. Go figure. They do not castrate their calves, so I know they have to take a hit at the sale barn. When it is time to take calves to the sale, they wean all; some might be 10 or 12 months and some might be 3 months, does not matter! I could go on and on, but it does no good. They are "part time" cattle owners, and the cattle are more like lawn ornaments that make money than beloved creatures that we have. The good thing is, most of the cattle are over 8 years old (they bought them as cows and have had them for 6 years now) and they do not keep replacements. They "borrow" a bull every year from someone, so have no output there. I would have turned them in a long time ago if I saw animals look like that! I never saw the bottle calf, or I would have had a word with them about feeding. I really don't think they looked at the calf much after they put him out with the cows, and just assumed he would combine with the rest of the herd and do fine. Ignorance, mainly.

I'm guessing you'll have a hard time getting them to get rid of their cows completely, but see if you can't educate them on the futility of bottle calves. Nothing takes more work relative to the potential return - and that's if its done right.  They obviously aren't going to put in the time.

chambero said:

I'm guessing you'll have a hard time getting them to get rid of their cows completely, but see if you can't educate them on the futility of bottle calves. Nothing takes more work relative to the potential return - and that's if its done right.  They obviously aren't going to put in the time.

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See, Chambero, that's my point. The problem is, they had one great experience with baby calves;  last year they had a cow have a dead calf, and another lose her calf (too big, and died days after birth) a few days later, so they went out and bought two day old dairy calves and locked the cows in with the calves. They got LUCKY and both calves took to a mama cow (even though one cow had calved several days prior to the dairy calves being introduced) . With no work other than locking them in a small stall and giving hay several times a day. I think they thought that this little calf would go find a mom like the other two did.  Like I said, ignorance. It worked once, so why not again? Not that there is a cow with a new calf that might take him.....

That poor little thing! If I were in your shoes and saw that I believe the calf's owner would be laying flat on the ground beside it.

With that being said and reading everyone's posts, I have to say I agree with everyone. Also, it might be good to put some hay in there with it to graze on during the day and get some fiber in him and that rumen working. Also, I was told that if a cow lays flat on its side for 30 minutes without getting up, that the contents in its gut block the entrance of the stomach and can somehow kill the cow. I'm not sure if that applys here or not, but when I have a sick calf that won't stand, I usually prop them up in some straw or something with their legs under them so they aren't laying flat. I'm sure the reason he won't stand is because he is so malnourished that his legs muscles just aren't strong enough to support him. (The pictures you post tend to support my theory) Propping him up should also help his legs and when you feed him, have him straddle a straw/hay bale to give him a little extra support when he stands and help build those leg muscles up.

Good luck and bless you for having the heart to take care of this calf. It takes a kind hearted person to donate their extra time and do what you are doing!