Steer Planet - Show Steers and Club Calves Forum

Steer Planet Chat => The Big Show => Topic started by: frm_girl on August 01, 2007, 01:08:04 AM

Title: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: frm_girl on August 01, 2007, 01:08:04 AM
ok, a lot of people around my small town are always joking about my steers and heifers because neither breed [simmental or hereford] are really well known in cattle shows now adays, and they keep saying that they aren't worth anything, and the judge at the livestock show this spring said that my steer would never be a good steer because he didnt like his body [he thought his butt was too skinny]  what do you think?
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: frm_girl on August 01, 2007, 01:10:27 AM
this is one of the cow calf pairs that i have, also semi/here
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: Zach on August 01, 2007, 02:09:44 AM
HAIR HAIR HAIR  (welcome) He looks like hes got a lot of meat on his bones and what not, Honestly he donsnt have the look i think to be a good showsteer. Market classes will be better for him with good conditioning and maybe a little fuzz  (welcome)
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: garybob on August 01, 2007, 08:22:44 PM
First of all, not a darn thing is wrong with this two-breed cross. Heterosis is the only "free lunch" there is in this biz.IMO, the heifer calves from this cross will be IDEAL for Crossing with a Red, Appendix-free Shorthorn Bull, or, a good (not half club-calf) Durham Red. Two, your pair pictured, looks just fine, to me. Hey, she's young, with a good udder, and, appears to be doing an excellent job.Very good fertility and lower maintenance costs in those Herefords. Third, too many people on this site are heavily into show ring selection. Ask yourself this, "Self, when was the last time you heard an order buyer discount a set of calves for lacking hair, or style?" Nor, will they give you more money for zipper fronts. Your Steer has plenty of cover. He ain't so bad, that you gotta hide him under more hair than "Gossimer", either.
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: Olson Family Shorthorns on August 01, 2007, 08:27:34 PM
When was the last time a cattle buyer judged a steer show?  Seriously, they don't around here...I don't know if they do elsewhere...
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: garybob on August 01, 2007, 08:34:23 PM
When was the last time a cattle buyer judged a steer show?  Seriously, they don't around here...I don't know if they do elsewhere...
My point is this.....
Why aren't we teaching about the BUSINESS aspects of the industry through these Youth projects anymore?  We have in place a separate "sport" that has evolved out of what used to be  a legitimate teaching tool. And, because of this, we now, in all breeds, have genetics that, whenever these bloodlines enter the commercial sector, it gives their representative breeds a black eye.
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: Olson Family Shorthorns on August 01, 2007, 08:40:22 PM
When was the last time a cattle buyer judged a steer show?  Seriously, they don't around here...I don't know if they do elsewhere...
My point is this.....
Why aren't we teaching about the BUSINESS aspects of the industry through these Youth projects anymore?  We have in place a separate "sport" that has evolved out of what used to be  a legitimate teaching tool. And, because of this, we now, in all breeds, have genetics that, whenever these bloodlines enter the commercial sector, it gives their representative breeds a black eye.

I'm sorry for the way my post sounded...I wasn't trying to offend anyone.  In fact, I see nothing wrong with the steer from a market animal standpoint.  The way I learned about business was to raise a steer and then see how he did.  I have raised 3 champions in the last 4 years like this.  They weren't perfect, but they taught me how to handle a market animal and how to make money with one.  It's just more fun showing a steer when the calf is a "show" animal.  I'd take 100 of those crossed steers and put em in a feedlot right now.
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: garybob on August 01, 2007, 08:47:03 PM
When was the last time a cattle buyer judged a steer show?  Seriously, they don't around here...I don't know if they do elsewhere...
My point is this.....
Why aren't we teaching about the BUSINESS aspects of the industry through these Youth projects anymore?  We have in place a separate "sport" that has evolved out of what used to be  a legitimate teaching tool. And, because of this, we now, in all breeds, have genetics that, whenever these bloodlines enter the commercial sector, it gives their representative breeds a black eye.

I'm sorry for the way my post sounded...I wasn't trying to offend anyone.  In fact, I see nothing wrong with the steer from a market animal standpoint.  The way I learned about business was to raise a steer and then see how he did.  I have raised 3 champions in the last 4 years like this.  They weren't perfect, but they taught me how to handle a market animal and how to make money with one.  It's just more fun showing a steer when the calf is a "show" animal.  I'd take 100 of those crossed steers and put em in a feedlot right now.
hey, Man, i didn't mean to sound offended by your reply to my post. No offense taken. Where are you going to College at? Good luck in everything you do.
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: Olson Family Shorthorns on August 01, 2007, 08:51:35 PM
I looked back on my post and it might have come off a little cocky, so I was just trying to make sure and clarify  ;D  We can all be friends here.  I'm going to the University of Illinois and I'm majoring in Animal Science with the Pre- Vet concentration...it's a mouthful lol. I move in August 18th.  Thanks for the well wishes!!
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: CAB on August 01, 2007, 08:54:36 PM
   Someone asked this morning on another thread here on the planet, why not or can't we breed for both performance and eye appeal. Doesn't that seem logical? Brent
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: CAB on August 01, 2007, 09:01:49 PM
  Sorry, I forgot to say that there is nothing wrong with your calves. You just need to evalue wehat you have and try to decide what you would like to do to improve whatever you think needs  worked on. SimmeX herefords are a great X, and I personally like Gary Bob's suggestions for the F2 X, but there are many choices that you can choose. If you can't AI yourself, try to find someone that will help you out there. The cidr's have made that quite a bit easier for someone to give you a hand with improving quicker than we could use to.Good Luck. Just keep trying to improve if you like the business. If not find something else that you do like. Life is too short to waste your time with something you don't like. Brent
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: knabe on August 01, 2007, 09:03:18 PM
and from the other thread, when are we going to select functional cattle in the showring?  the show ring could do a better job clarifying the major differences between a terminal animal and one used for breeding.  the line is a little blurry when breeding heifers have more fat on them than the market animals.  as said before, i don't know how you do that without being a little more negative and during the class.  i wonder how well a little "seminar" would be attended if guided by the judge to contrast some of the animals before him and if those exhibitors wouldn't get to offended.  saying a heifer needs to be more athletic may not be enough guidance when an exhibitor is more worried about his placement in a class.  it is at that moment however, that exhibitors are usually listening with more focus than at any other time and are actually looking for help.  let's help them.
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: OH Breeder on August 01, 2007, 09:50:32 PM
ok, a lot of people around my small town are always joking about my steers and heifers because neither breed [simmental or hereford] are really well known in cattle shows now adays, and they keep saying that they aren't worth anything, and the judge at the livestock show this spring said that my steer would never be a good steer because he didnt like his body [he thought his butt was too skinny]  what do you think?

Okay, this is my opinion.
You said that the judge said... so I am assuming you are showing him as a club calf or in some sort of jackpot show. That market is very competitive. Unfortunately, hair is a big part of the mix. It hides some flaws and may make the "skinny" butt as you said, look more appealing. Small towns are just that, small towns. I grew up in one.
If you are shooting for jackpots, he will have to have more flash or eye appeal to catch the judges attention. I like colored steers and we have had quiet a few that have done well around here, Ohio, MI, IN, etc. A tick more cover would help but he is coming along it looks like. If you are shooting for rate of gain and carcass then I would not take the judges opinion to heart. It depends on what kind of show you were at.
I may not agree with the hair deal but unfortunately it is part of some of the shows where we are.
What is the goal with your cows? What are you trying to produce with them? What market are you putting there calves in?
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: Telos on August 02, 2007, 01:10:58 AM

I don't know if you and your family bred that calf, but if you did I'd be very proud to have produced one of that quality. Is he a great show steer? Probably not , but a very good steer for industry standards in my opinion.

Like Ohio Breeder said, these steer shows or extremely competitive and even the good ones have a tuff time placing well. Breeding for the ideal show steer has become a science and an art with producers only breeding for that kind of calf. You cannot learn this business overnight and many can't figure it out in a course of a lifetime. It's just fiercely that competitive. My suggestion is to be open minded and objective about  what direction you want to to take your breeding program.
I too,  like the others on this thread, think those Simi x Herefords are great cow machines and would work in a varity of programs.

One other thing I'd like to say Frm_girl is that you have an incredible eye for the camera. There were some great photos by all who entered with some of your's really standing out. I hope you continue to pursue that avenue. You seem to have a good sense of composition and knowing how to frame your subject.
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: TJ on August 02, 2007, 01:59:51 AM
As others have said, nothing is wrong with Hereford X Simmental crosses (except when a judge is color blind & only see's BLACK!!  ;) ).  IMHO, it should make you a really nice F1 combination!  I agree with GaryBob, I would be inclined to breed your F1's to a thick butted, Red Shorthorn bull.  If you could find the "right" Durham Red, that might even be better. 

Your calf is a nice calf, but I agree with OHBreeder, a little more cover wouldn't hurt his looks at all, even though I will admit that he looks like he's got a pretty decent amount of cover right now.  Also, like he mentioned, I am not greatly fond of the amount of "hair" that it takes to win at a "SUMMERTIME" show, but if you are going to play, you have to use every advantage that you can get.  I've heard that 1 inch of hair is equal to 100 lbs. of weight on animal... so, it will not only make your animal appear thicker & beefier, but it will also hide a whole lot of flaws too.  That's why so many exhibitors grow so much hair, even in the summertime.  Plus, right or wrong, if 2 animals are equal, 95+% of all judges will pick the calf that has been better fitted & appears to have more hair.  That's just the way the showring world works.   

Just don't get discouraged... I think that you are laying a real good foundation & with 1 more cross & getting some hair to grow, you could be doing big things fairly soon!! 
 
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: garybob on August 02, 2007, 07:16:43 PM
  Sorry, I forgot to say that there is nothing wrong with your calves. You just need to evalue wehat you have and try to decide what you would like to do to improve whatever you think needs  worked on. SimmeX herefords are a great X, and I personally like Gary Bob's suggestions for the F2 X, but there are many choices that you can choose. If you can't AI yourself, try to find someone that will help you out there. The cidr's have made that quite a bit easier for someone to give you a hand with improving quicker than we could use to.Good Luck. Just keep trying to improve if you like the business. If not find something else that you do like. Life is too short to waste your time with something you don't like. Brent
Good point. There are many options, and pick one that YOU like. I have only made a suggestion, as to the Germ plasm for the F-2X.The other thing is, that I, too, come from a SMALL town. The Coffee Shop influences more  Cattlemen's decisions around here than the County Agent does. Jot down what these local critics have said, regarding genetics & mgt Today, then put it in a sort of mental time capsule. Later, look around and listen, then compare notes again. There are many in this biz that are followers, not leaders. That's a good, efficient, Hereford Cow. She obviously clicked with your Simmie Bull. You hit a "home run", and, don't let anyone tell you different.
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: CPL on August 03, 2007, 02:52:47 AM
Without reading the bunches of other posts, I think you need to look at what bulls you are using. A GOOD Herf X Simmi cross should be just as good as a clubby one. I noticed you did say small town, and that simmis and herfs aren't popular in your area... so what genetics are you using? The old guy's down the road? AI? Please don't think I'm being mean, but there are bad Maine steers just like there are awful Hereford steers. You just need to compile proven genetics into your cowherd to decrease the chances of the awful ones showing up.
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: frm_girl on August 03, 2007, 04:52:53 PM
thank you all for your comments.  He is breed my my dad and i at our farm. we are in the process of going from 120 head of cattle to 60 and when we do, we illthen start AI.  thanks again.

Allie ;D
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: DLD on August 03, 2007, 05:14:32 PM
Nothing at all wrong with the Simi/Hereford cross. As others have said, you've got some good cattle, just not quite the show winning kind, yet. If you choose to stay with these breeds/crosses, you can certainly AI to some bulls (such as the LeGrand Reload being discussed in another thread) that will produce you some showier type calves that can be competitive. Also the longer you show the more you'll learn about how to feed and fit to be more competitive. Don't let others discourage from taking a little different approach than they are.
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: Olson Family Shorthorns on August 03, 2007, 05:29:52 PM
Nothing at all wrong with the Simi/Hereford cross. As others have said, you've got some good cattle, just not quite the show winning kind, yet. If you choose to stay with these breeds/crosses, you can certainly AI to some bulls (such as the LeGrand Reload being discussed in another thread) that will produce you some showier type calves that can be competitive. Also the longer you show the more you'll learn about how to feed and fit to be more competitive. Don't let others discourage from taking a little different approach than they are.

That's right..it took me quite a few years to get to where I'm at, and I'm not even close to as good as some of the folks on this board! Keep your head up and just keep working at it..it's definately worth it!!
Title: Re: simmental/polled hereford cross breeding
Post by: Chad on August 04, 2007, 03:08:02 AM
Years ago, our cow herd was predominantly Polled Herefords.  We bred them to a traditional Simmental bull.  The females from this cross made great cows.  They were fertile and milked quite well.  They always weaned heavy calves and had super dispositions.  I used the better profiling cows for club calf females.  They worked very well on low percentage Chiangus bulls or half blood Maine bulls.  I even bred a few to an Angus bull.  One of our best cows today is half Angus, quarter Simmental, quarter Polled Hereford.  She was never placed lower than second when we showed her in 1996-7.  In June, she weighed in at 1250 and weaned a 690 pound steer out of K & A Colby - Maine bull.  I think that is pretty good for a 10 year old cow.