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Offline wiredangus

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Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« on: November 19, 2012, 11:02:09 AM »
Looking for a recommendation on a Red White faced or hetero Black white faced simmy bull to add power to some Red Angus Cows. I have been looking at maybe trying GWS/SCF Rendition or Built Right, but I believe they are both hetero polled (May not make a difference on Red Angus cows?) Also just noticed a Red White faced bull called RS& T Homeboy. I am by all means not limiting my choices to these 3, I am just curious which you would recommend to add power to Red Angus cows or is there a better choice than these. Bull must be hetero black or red with a white face.

Offline leanbeef

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 12:49:44 PM »
Built Right is actually homozygous polled, so your calves out of purebred Red Angus cows will be homozygous polled, and you could expect about half of them to be red andhalf black. You should expect about half to have some white on their faces...either a blaze, a star on their face or white on the nose. Not all the calves will have some white. The same thing applies to the Rendition calves...half red/half black, and maybe on average some white on the face of about 50% of the calves out of Angus females. Rendition is heterozygous polled...you won't get HORNED calves, but you should expect 50% to carry a recessive horn gene.

I'm not too familiar with many red baldy bulls. What I would say is I think you'll love the Simmental x Angus cross calves if you haven't been around those cattle before. Most of the purebred red blaze faced bulls should make about half the calves blazes, and some groups out of some bulls are way less. Don't be too disappointed if you want blazes and you don't get many using a bull like that. If you want a higher percentage of baldies, look at a bull that has white on the belly, feet, or tail or even the body, like a Fleckvieh bull. You won't get spots because the spot gene is recessive, and you should make a lot more baldies & blazes on cows like that.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 12:59:05 PM »
If you use a hetero black blazed face bull on those cows you will very disapointed at the uniformity.  Like lb said, you will get solid reds, solid blacks, red white face, black white face, red blaze face, black blaze face, red brockle/motley face, black brockle/motley face-

Red Angus are homozygous polled.  With that said, no matter what bull you breed them to, none of calves should be horned.

I'd encourage you to use another british breed in the makeup of your momma cows and save the exotic/continental blood for your terminal cross.

ex. red angus x shorthorn,  red angus x hereford, red angus x red poll and then cross em with a fullblood char or limo or simm for the terminal cross
Friends don't let friends use crossbred bulls

Offline wiredangus

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 01:41:59 PM »
Built Right is actually homozygous polled, so your calves out of purebred Red Angus cows will be homozygous polled, and you could expect about half of them to be red andhalf black. You should expect about half to have some white on their faces...either a blaze, a star on their face or white on the nose. Not all the calves will have some white. The same thing applies to the Rendition calves...half red/half black, and maybe on average some white on the face of about 50% of the calves out of Angus females. Rendition is heterozygous polled...you won't get HORNED calves, but you should expect 50% to carry a recessive horn gene.

I'm not too familiar with many red baldy bulls. What I would say is I think you'll love the Simmental x Angus cross calves if you haven't been around those cattle before. Most of the purebred red blaze faced bulls should make about half the calves blazes, and some groups out of some bulls are way less. Don't be too disappointed if you want blazes and you don't get many using a bull like that. If you want a higher percentage of baldies, look at a bull that has white on the belly, feet, or tail or even the body, like a Fleckvieh bull. You won't get spots because the spot gene is recessive, and you should make a lot more baldies & blazes on cows like that.

I believe Rendition does have some white on his feet and up his belly past the naval scar. Would Rendition add more muscle expression than Built right or if I wanted to go all red would Homeboy add enough muscle to fancy up angus type cattle?? You hear people say all the time stay away from Dream on bred cattle when trying to add power to angus cows?? I would really like to pick a bull and breed about 20 head just to get a good sized sample and see what they are gonna be like.

Offline firesweepranch

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2012, 02:01:20 PM »
Rendition will add more power than Built Right, Built Right makes some nice females but they are feminine. I have no problem using Dream On, and have seen some nice angus x Dream on cows. Jeff Miller just had one in his online sale that was a dream on x angus, and she was heavy boned and full of power. She sold well, and I saw her on the trailer when my heifer was delivered and she was the real deal. But, if the cow does not have enough power, Dream On might not be the best choice. No Home Boy offspring are out there yet that I know of. So I can not recommend there.
Are you really stuck on white face? Beef Maker, and ABS bull, really adds some power to his calves. And he is heifer safe. I have seen a few of his calves, and reports coming in are really good. But no white on his face. He also has a real good set of EPD's.
We have a red bull with a white face, but he is just a fall so another year before he can be used. Really good looking bull, and was an embryo calf sired by Built Right (we had a black with white face bull from the same flush that we raised and sold in Spring, did really well with him).
I think Chopper is hetero, but not positive. He is really putting some nice calves out there.
Hope that helped some! I just love our simm x angus crosses, and the red angus x simm crosses are gaining a ton of popularity. They grow quick and make fantastic mothers.
God, family, and Simmental cattle;  that's what makes life worth living!

Offline wiredangus

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 03:50:21 PM »
The only reason I wantd the white face is to add some flash to them. I had some Mr. Amigo calves this year and they were nice calves,but not really what I would call stand-outs amongst the other full Red angus calves. I do have some upgrades in a few cows for next year that I would assume would be a little bit more my liking,but they are still in the oven and will be all black I would imagine. I do agree with you on the beef makers, his epds are tops and looks to be real long bodied with good muscle expression...What I don't want to get myself into is trying this bull and a little bit of that bull and then this other bull last minute and then only getting 2-3 calves out of each of them and not really getting a good sample of what they are.

Offline ADG

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 04:36:57 PM »
Dream on works well, may not solve your baldy problem though.  Very pleased with the pounds and expression he puts on our older generation red angus cows (B.C. Hobo, Big Sky, etc).  Also used Amigo on some Dream On red daughters and was pleased.

Should read what I wrote...Used Amigo on some of our red angus daughters and was pleased.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 03:13:58 PM by ADG »

Offline leanbeef

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 07:52:19 PM »
If you use a hetero black blazed face bull on those cows you will very disapointed at the uniformity.  Like lb said, you will get solid reds, solid blacks, red white face, black white face, red blaze face, black blaze face, red brockle/motley face, black brockle/motley face-

Red Angus are homozygous polled.  With that said, no matter what bull you breed them to, none of calves should be horned.

I'd encourage you to use another british breed in the makeup of your momma cows and save the exotic/continental blood for your terminal cross.

ex. red angus x shorthorn,  red angus x hereford, red angus x red poll and then cross em with a fullblood char or limo or simm for the terminal cross

I strongly disagree with the recommendation to use another British breed and then come back on those crossbred replacements with a terminal sire. Simmental has always been recognized as the maternal option of all the continental breeds, and there are plenty of options now for sire selection that couple that with easy calving and carcass merit. You will like the F1 Simmy x Red Angus females, and I can't say I disagree with the suggestion to find a red bull you like, just so the calves are more uniform.

I don't know anything about the Homeboy bull...I would still say to at least consider a Fleck or part Fleck bull on cows like that to maximize heterosis in that first calf crop AND to make lots of blaze faces.

Offline jachbom

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2012, 07:55:42 PM »
Try Final Cut in the ABS lineup!

Offline bbsf

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2012, 09:09:23 PM »
We flushed a 1/2 simmi 1/2 red angus cow to a purebred simmi bull.  Got 11 calves this fall.  Will send you pics of calves and more info on bull if you pm your cell # or send info to breezinb@sofnet.com.  Semen for sale from owner only.  Maybe worth your effort to check this out.

Offline Red Cow Relocators

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2012, 09:18:02 PM »
Lorenzons have been very sucessfull with the Simmi/RA cross. I'm not sure of what simmi bulls they are using on their red cows but I can tell you that they sell the tar out of those F1 cross bulls in their bull sale. Damar in WI is breeding several of their Simmi cows that they got in the CCC dispersal to R A bulls as well. From a sale mangers point of view I can say that the blaze faced F1 females are a very hot commodity. RCR
Dedicated to the promotion and sales of Red Angus cattle

Offline Mark H

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 12:22:40 AM »
If you want to get a white face calf out of RA cows  I would use a Fleck bull.  I like the IPU Bronson line since they are light birth weight for Flecks and have plenty of performance.  Getting Branson semen could be tough, but he does have a good son at Genex: http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=1SM00075&lang=EN
The Fleck RA cross is good enough that bar 5 Simmental gone into the RA business and they have a bull they promoted out of their South African Flecks and elite LCC Red Angus cows: http://www.bar5.com/animals/circle3bulls/optimizer461p.htm.

Offline WKYIronMike

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 06:47:56 AM »
Just a quick thought but maybe Lazy H Pathfinder R104.

Offline wiredangus

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2012, 09:04:01 AM »
Lorenzons have been very sucessfull with the Simmi/RA cross. I'm not sure of what simmi bulls they are using on their red cows but I can tell you that they sell the tar out of those F1 cross bulls in their bull sale. Damar in WI is breeding several of their Simmi cows that they got in the CCC dispersal to R A bulls as well. From a sale mangers point of view I can say that the blaze faced F1 females are a very hot commodity. RCR

I actually do quite a bit of business with Damars. I know they are real happy with the way the bulls sell out west!

Offline bluffcountrycattle

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Re: Simmy bull on Red Angus cows
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2012, 10:12:01 AM »
Here's an interesting bull....  http://allens5xfarm.com/Sires.html  Bull called Houston.  Has a nice daughter pictured on the Pride of the Prairie simmi sale too.  Might be a good fit for what you are looking for.  Don't know anything about the bull, and have never seen him either.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 10:13:18 AM by bluffcountrycattle »
Mark - Bluff Country Cattle
Lanesboro, MN
www.bluffcountrycattle.com

 

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