Simmy bull on Red Angus cows

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wiredangus

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Jan 13, 2012
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Looking for a recommendation on a Red White faced or hetero Black white faced simmy bull to add power to some Red Angus Cows. I have been looking at maybe trying GWS/SCF Rendition or Built Right, but I believe they are both hetero polled (May not make a difference on Red Angus cows?) Also just noticed a Red White faced bull called RS& T Homeboy. I am by all means not limiting my choices to these 3, I am just curious which you would recommend to add power to Red Angus cows or is there a better choice than these. Bull must be hetero black or red with a white face.
 

leanbeef

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Built Right is actually homozygous polled, so your calves out of purebred Red Angus cows will be homozygous polled, and you could expect about half of them to be red andhalf black. You should expect about half to have some white on their faces...either a blaze, a star on their face or white on the nose. Not all the calves will have some white. The same thing applies to the Rendition calves...half red/half black, and maybe on average some white on the face of about 50% of the calves out of Angus females. Rendition is heterozygous polled...you won't get HORNED calves, but you should expect 50% to carry a recessive horn gene.

I'm not too familiar with many red baldy bulls. What I would say is I think you'll love the Simmental x Angus cross calves if you haven't been around those cattle before. Most of the purebred red blaze faced bulls should make about half the calves blazes, and some groups out of some bulls are way less. Don't be too disappointed if you want blazes and you don't get many using a bull like that. If you want a higher percentage of baldies, look at a bull that has white on the belly, feet, or tail or even the body, like a Fleckvieh bull. You won't get spots because the spot gene is recessive, and you should make a lot more baldies & blazes on cows like that.
 

RyanChandler

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If you use a hetero black blazed face bull on those cows you will very disapointed at the uniformity.  Like lb said, you will get solid reds, solid blacks, red white face, black white face, red blaze face, black blaze face, red brockle/motley face, black brockle/motley face-

Red Angus are homozygous polled.  With that said, no matter what bull you breed them to, none of calves should be horned.

I'd encourage you to use another british breed in the makeup of your momma cows and save the exotic/continental blood for your terminal cross.

ex. red angus x shorthorn,  red angus x hereford, red angus x red poll and then cross em with a fullblood char or limo or simm for the terminal cross
 

wiredangus

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leanbeef said:
Built Right is actually homozygous polled, so your calves out of purebred Red Angus cows will be homozygous polled, and you could expect about half of them to be red andhalf black. You should expect about half to have some white on their faces...either a blaze, a star on their face or white on the nose. Not all the calves will have some white. The same thing applies to the Rendition calves...half red/half black, and maybe on average some white on the face of about 50% of the calves out of Angus females. Rendition is heterozygous polled...you won't get HORNED calves, but you should expect 50% to carry a recessive horn gene.

I'm not too familiar with many red baldy bulls. What I would say is I think you'll love the Simmental x Angus cross calves if you haven't been around those cattle before. Most of the purebred red blaze faced bulls should make about half the calves blazes, and some groups out of some bulls are way less. Don't be too disappointed if you want blazes and you don't get many using a bull like that. If you want a higher percentage of baldies, look at a bull that has white on the belly, feet, or tail or even the body, like a Fleckvieh bull. You won't get spots because the spot gene is recessive, and you should make a lot more baldies & blazes on cows like that.

I believe Rendition does have some white on his feet and up his belly past the naval scar. Would Rendition add more muscle expression than Built right or if I wanted to go all red would Homeboy add enough muscle to fancy up angus type cattle?? You hear people say all the time stay away from Dream on bred cattle when trying to add power to angus cows?? I would really like to pick a bull and breed about 20 head just to get a good sized sample and see what they are gonna be like.
 

firesweepranch

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Rendition will add more power than Built Right, Built Right makes some nice females but they are feminine. I have no problem using Dream On, and have seen some nice angus x Dream on cows. Jeff Miller just had one in his online sale that was a dream on x angus, and she was heavy boned and full of power. She sold well, and I saw her on the trailer when my heifer was delivered and she was the real deal. But, if the cow does not have enough power, Dream On might not be the best choice. No Home Boy offspring are out there yet that I know of. So I can not recommend there.
Are you really stuck on white face? Beef Maker, and ABS bull, really adds some power to his calves. And he is heifer safe. I have seen a few of his calves, and reports coming in are really good. But no white on his face. He also has a real good set of EPD's.
We have a red bull with a white face, but he is just a fall so another year before he can be used. Really good looking bull, and was an embryo calf sired by Built Right (we had a black with white face bull from the same flush that we raised and sold in Spring, did really well with him).
I think Chopper is hetero, but not positive. He is really putting some nice calves out there.
Hope that helped some! I just love our simm x angus crosses, and the red angus x simm crosses are gaining a ton of popularity. They grow quick and make fantastic mothers.
 

wiredangus

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The only reason I wantd the white face is to add some flash to them. I had some Mr. Amigo calves this year and they were nice calves,but not really what I would call stand-outs amongst the other full Red angus calves. I do have some upgrades in a few cows for next year that I would assume would be a little bit more my liking,but they are still in the oven and will be all black I would imagine. I do agree with you on the beef makers, his epds are tops and looks to be real long bodied with good muscle expression...What I don't want to get myself into is trying this bull and a little bit of that bull and then this other bull last minute and then only getting 2-3 calves out of each of them and not really getting a good sample of what they are.
 

ADG

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Dream on works well, may not solve your baldy problem though.  Very pleased with the pounds and expression he puts on our older generation red angus cows (B.C. Hobo, Big Sky, etc).  Also used Amigo on some Dream On red daughters and was pleased.

Should read what I wrote...Used Amigo on some of our red angus daughters and was pleased.
 

leanbeef

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-XBAR- said:
If you use a hetero black blazed face bull on those cows you will very disapointed at the uniformity.  Like lb said, you will get solid reds, solid blacks, red white face, black white face, red blaze face, black blaze face, red brockle/motley face, black brockle/motley face-

Red Angus are homozygous polled.  With that said, no matter what bull you breed them to, none of calves should be horned.

I'd encourage you to use another british breed in the makeup of your momma cows and save the exotic/continental blood for your terminal cross.

ex. red angus x shorthorn,  red angus x hereford, red angus x red poll and then cross em with a fullblood char or limo or simm for the terminal cross

I strongly disagree with the recommendation to use another British breed and then come back on those crossbred replacements with a terminal sire. Simmental has always been recognized as the maternal option of all the continental breeds, and there are plenty of options now for sire selection that couple that with easy calving and carcass merit. You will like the F1 Simmy x Red Angus females, and I can't say I disagree with the suggestion to find a red bull you like, just so the calves are more uniform.

I don't know anything about the Homeboy bull...I would still say to at least consider a Fleck or part Fleck bull on cows like that to maximize heterosis in that first calf crop AND to make lots of blaze faces.
 

bbsf

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We flushed a 1/2 simmi 1/2 red angus cow to a purebred simmi bull.  Got 11 calves this fall.  Will send you pics of calves and more info on bull if you pm your cell # or send info to [email protected].  Semen for sale from owner only.  Maybe worth your effort to check this out.
 

Red Cow Relocators

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Lorenzons have been very sucessfull with the Simmi/RA cross. I'm not sure of what simmi bulls they are using on their red cows but I can tell you that they sell the tar out of those F1 cross bulls in their bull sale. Damar in WI is breeding several of their Simmi cows that they got in the CCC dispersal to R A bulls as well. From a sale mangers point of view I can say that the blaze faced F1 females are a very hot commodity. RCR
 

Mark H

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If you want to get a white face calf out of RA cows  I would use a Fleck bull.  I like the IPU Bronson line since they are light birth weight for Flecks and have plenty of performance.  Getting Branson semen could be tough, but he does have a good son at Genex: http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=1SM00075&lang=EN
The Fleck RA cross is good enough that bar 5 Simmental gone into the RA business and they have a bull they promoted out of their South African Flecks and elite LCC Red Angus cows: http://www.bar5.com/animals/circle3bulls/optimizer461p.htm.
 

wiredangus

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Red Cow Relocators said:
Lorenzons have been very sucessfull with the Simmi/RA cross. I'm not sure of what simmi bulls they are using on their red cows but I can tell you that they sell the tar out of those F1 cross bulls in their bull sale. Damar in WI is breeding several of their Simmi cows that they got in the CCC dispersal to R A bulls as well. From a sale mangers point of view I can say that the blaze faced F1 females are a very hot commodity. RCR

I actually do quite a bit of business with Damars. I know they are real happy with the way the bulls sell out west!
 

bluffcountrycattle

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Here's an interesting bull....  http://allens5xfarm.com/Sires.html  Bull called Houston.  Has a nice daughter pictured on the Pride of the Prairie simmi sale too.  Might be a good fit for what you are looking for.  Don't know anything about the bull, and have never seen him either.
 

wiredangus

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bluffcountrycattle said:
Here's an interesting bull....  http://allens5xfarm.com/Sires.html  Bull called Houston.  Has a nice daughter pictured on the Pride of the Prairie simmi sale too.  Might be a good fit for what you are looking for.  Don't know anything about the bull, and have never seen him either.

Thanks! I see Damar farms is part owner in that bull. I will give Mitch a call and pick his brain a little.
 

wiredangus

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Any other Red Baldy Simmental AI sire's out there?

Here is a photo of the Homeboy bull I took off their flyer. He doesn't have any calves on the ground yet so it is hard to tell what he would do on Red angus cows? What do you guys think?



 

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leanbeef

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He's a good looking calf. I just wouldn't expect a really high percentage of baldies or blazes outta him & Red Angus cows. A blaze faced bull out of one solid red parent...a bull that LOOKS LIKE what you want your calf crop to look like is not the best choice to make your calf crop look like that. You have dig deeper than the phenotypic expression of the color and markings... Even though we don't know all there is to know about the blaze gene, the baldy gene, or the spot gene, anybody who has been around Simmental cattle for many years or has seen the product of different crosses with Simmental genetics can tell you what you'll get with pretty good confidence. I manage a group of Angus cows that we breed primarily to Simmental bulls. I have a field full of solid black calves, and almost all of them are sired by blaze faced bulls. A few calves have a small amount of white somewhere on the face, but it's far from half of them even counting those calves. Last weekend, I bought a black baldy bull with a white belly, white legs, and white tail, and he's out of two baldy parents. I didn't buy him because that's what I want the calves to look like...I bought because he's the bull that has the genetics to work on the cows I'm using him on to make calves that look like I want em to.
 

ROMAX

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I would go with a full fleck bull ,he will give u the white faces and they will be thick.A lot of guys in Canada use this cross for there cows and bulls.
 

wiredangus

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leanbeef said:
He's a good looking calf. I just wouldn't expect a really high percentage of baldies or blazes outta him & Red Angus cows. A blaze faced bull out of one solid red parent...a bull that LOOKS LIKE what you want your calf crop to look like is not the best choice to make your calf crop look like that. You have dig deeper than the phenotypic expression of the color and markings... Even though we don't know all there is to know about the blaze gene, the baldy gene, or the spot gene, anybody who has been around Simmental cattle for many years or has seen the product of different crosses with Simmental genetics can tell you what you'll get with pretty good confidence. I manage a group of Angus cows that we breed primarily to Simmental bulls. I have a field full of solid black calves, and almost all of them are sired by blaze faced bulls. A few calves have a small amount of white somewhere on the face, but it's far from half of them even counting those calves. Last weekend, I bought a black baldy bull with a white belly, white legs, and white tail, and he's out of two baldy parents. I didn't buy him because that's what I want the calves to look like...I bought because he's the bull that has the genetics to work on the cows I'm using him on to make calves that look like I want em to.

Good advise  (thumbsup) Thanks!
 
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