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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: site...PROMINENT HERITAGE (NATIVE) SHORTHORN BULLS BORN PRIOR TO 1985
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2018, 11:18:41 PM »
Like to see some pictures of the 4.5 frame 1250-1400 pounders-gotta be stout O0

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: site...PROMINENT HERITAGE (NATIVE) SHORTHORN BULLS BORN PRIOR TO 1985
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2018, 11:39:21 PM »
Thanks for the information.  You want bigger framed cows than I do.  I don't have fescue and I worry more about tenderness than I do marbling.  What frame score do you consider belt buckle?  I prefer a frame score 4 1250 pound cow.  Nothing frail about that.  Since I don't sell much to the commodity market I worry more about the composition of the gain than I do the rate of gain.  I probably have some of what you are looking for but it is a work in progress.

Unfortunately, fescue tolerance has to trump absolutely everything here. It can cull harder and faster than the most aggressive of cowmen. Anything near a 2 is belt buckle to me and even a 3 is hard for me to look at. I personally don't have a problem with frame 4 - 1250lb cows, but the open or bred replacements in that range are a tough sell here.

How are you applying selection pressure for tenderness?

Offline beebe

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Re: site...PROMINENT HERITAGE (NATIVE) SHORTHORN BULLS BORN PRIOR TO 1985
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2018, 12:12:56 AM »
I will take some pictures.  I apply a lot of Gerald Fry's principles and I sample a lot of carcasses.  I have done some DNA testing but I am still scratching my head on some of that.

Offline idalee

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Re: site...PROMINENT HERITAGE (NATIVE) SHORTHORN BULLS BORN PRIOR TO 1985
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2018, 09:28:38 AM »
Medium Rare,  I have three Native cows that somewhat fit what  you are looking for but I don't have all the data you require.   BW,  WW  and some YW is all that I have.    Some would call me a hobby breeder but our cattle never see grain,  only hay when the pastures play out,  and their natural fleshing ability gets them fat on that program. 

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: site...PROMINENT HERITAGE (NATIVE) SHORTHORN BULLS BORN PRIOR TO 1985
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2018, 02:03:16 PM »
 8)

Offline Duncraggan

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Re: site...PROMINENT HERITAGE (NATIVE) SHORTHORN BULLS BORN PRIOR TO 1985
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2018, 02:49:00 PM »
Medium Rare,  I have three Native cows that somewhat fit what  you are looking for but I don't have all the data you require.   BW,  WW  and some YW is all that I have.    Some would call me a hobby breeder but our cattle never see grain,  only hay when the pastures play out,  and their natural fleshing ability gets them fat on that program.
<band> This is where I am heading! Sold my first breeding females last week, after 15 years of breeding Shorthorns! Couldn't bring myself to sell something I wouldn't use myself.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 02:51:00 PM by Duncraggan »

Offline aj

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Re: site...PROMINENT HERITAGE (NATIVE) SHORTHORN BULLS BORN PRIOR TO 1985
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2018, 08:49:44 AM »
I bought a bull at Lovings ......that I think has an old timey look. Lot 6. Deep ribbed, not tall, kinda average on things but all traits above average. No old time genetics but I think kind of fits the bill.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline beebe

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Like to see some pictures of the 4.5 frame 1250-1400 pounders-gotta be stout O0
  Here are the pictures you requested.  I don't measure and weigh every cow but I think these are approximately frame score 4, 1250-1400 pound cows. The first one is what I consider to be my best cow.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Thanks-they look kind what I thought they would look like and take me back alot of years-to me-they favor the Dover and Ralph Larson cattle. Back in the day-2975 really worked on ones like these over the Dairy blood like Ayatollah.They maintained the depth of body and maybe gained thickness in some cases. AND NO NOT EVERYONE OF THEM WERE BAD UDDERED Seen alot of cattle that went back to Warrior-such as some of the other Kimhillhills-Augusta Prides, and way earlier.His dam was a 2975-Af Deerpark Kimilhill-CCS Kimillhill that Wankel showed I believe went back to him too-beautiful thick cow. The fullblood maines that Doc Son has posted on here have really evolved all the way around-First and foremost BWS-Structure etc.They in some cases are related to G-9 and 2975-through Cunia. BUT- I would like to see some from the best breeding Proud Jazz son I have seen OF ALL-(I could put together a BOOK of really good progeny-that are low bw 6 years worth of calves totalling at least 80 on one farm They are correct and GROW Pictured is an A Typical long yearling son-who reminds me very much of the White hiefers sire from Montana posted awhile back KC clipper Duke I think) With a very moderate BW this caf is deceptively heavy-and weighs over 1300 pounds-but is MAYBE a frame 5 max-at 13 or so months, His sire would definitely work-and would weigh maybe 23-2400 fat-about a 5 frame-0 -1.2 BW-triple clean. Alot of the old breeding is there both proud jazz and Irish-which would knick with yours JMO. I know point blank in type they would. O0
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 11:42:46 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline beebe

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Thank you.  I don't mind having them being compared to Dover and Ralph Larson cattle.  They work for me.  I really appreciate the disposition on these cattle as my rodeo days are behind me.  All my cattle are developed without grain so that I can identify the ones that can not thrive in an all forage environment.

Offline idalee

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Those are nice cows,  Beebe.   They are so well balanced,   I would have guessed they were bigger than that.   

Offline beebe

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Those are nice cows,  Beebe.   They are so well balanced,   I would have guessed they were bigger than that.
Thank you.  The two on the bottom are daughters of DMH Minn Max Leader.  He is just about a frame score 4.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Out of curiosity what do you think the "minn maax leader" 4 frame bull wieghs? O0

Offline beebe

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Good question.  He is a chunk, maybe 1800.  That is just a guess.

Offline -XBAR-

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I would like to see some from the best breeding Proud Jazz son I have seen OF ALL-

Who is this?

Im going back using a 10yr old JPJ son this year over the type of cows you describe. Reduce frame, add upper rib, add muscle-- I think this is going to be a really good cross as well.

 

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