Smokin Joe?????

What's everyones thoughts on Smokin Joe?  Is he a good replacement for his sire?  Does he down size his progeny?  Has anyone seen any calves?  Anyone know his mature frame score?

Looks like a good bull to me. 

DCC SMOKIN' JOE 157P
Reg. # - 337244

Sire: Cowman's Ali
Dam: MVH Miss Pinnacle 4J


Thanks,

RSC

I saw probally 25 calves this fall. Most were a finer boned then I would have liked, weren't very thick, break behind the shoulders, and lacked depth. However they were VERY HAIRY, and had very good neck extension, and really also pretty sound, and the heifers were super feminine

BCCC said:

I saw probally 25 calves this fall. Most were a finer boned then I would have liked, weren't very thick, break behind the shoulders, and lacked depth. However they were VERY HAIRY, and had very good neck extension, and really also pretty sound, and the heifers were super feminine

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isn't hair all that matters?

Where did you see the 25 calves?  Of the hundreds that I've seen in the last couple of years fine boned, not very thick and lacking depth wouldn't be at all how I'd describe them.

BCCC said:

break behind the shoulders, and lacked depth. 

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typical maine traits.  some grow out of the shoulder break, as was noticed in 1974 by harlan ritchie when he visited france.

There must be something good about him. I see almost everyone one of the heifers in Goretska's sale is bred to him, and he comes from one of the most premier maine anjou herds in the nation.  :-\

just to be clear, i'm not knocking him at all.  i'm more concerned with the shape of the bone than i am the amount of bone.  i want them to be more flat and clean.  it's one thing i would fault draft pick on, other than leather, and the obvious PHA, as well as the volume shape.

Tony I would breed half your replacement heifers to him to get an idea what kind of bull he is and the other half to something else.

I think  with his pedigree and  the way the energizer cattle breed he will be a very good heifer bull. However to get that super calf it is going to take one heck of a female.

I bred him to one of my bred and owned heifers and I am extremely happy with the results. She had a heifer calf this fall out of him that is very sound, great disposition, and should do well in the show ring. I hope. I've seen a couple other calves sired by him and they aren't even close to dissappointing!

simtal said:

BCCC said:

I saw probally 25 calves this fall. Most were a finer boned then I would have liked, weren't very thick, break behind the shoulders, and lacked depth. However they were VERY HAIRY, and had very good neck extension, and really also pretty sound, and the heifers were super feminine

Click to expand...

isn't hair all that matters?

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Not in Texas!! 

I haven't seen calves out of him, but I did see him at Genex in Mitchell last year.  I thought he was even better in person than in his picture.

I know I'm in the minority on this bull, I 'm not saying he's bad, but he has a specific purpose in my mind and that is for a heifer bull, nothing wrong with that.  When you get that heifer calf out of him, what are you going to bred the next generation to ? If you are breeding Maines your options are limited. With a 1/2 blood Joe there are more.

I'm not completely sure that the calving ease will be as predictable on clubby bred cows as Ali was, but on angus he is like clockwork.  He is a pretty big mature bull with as much power as you will find in any maine out there.  Don't use him to downsize, but he won't make the cattle giant either.  He will sire consistancy like no other with a big hip and lots of thickness.  He will likely follow the cow when it comes to front ends, so he needs to be bred to fairly clean fronted cattle.  He is a rare sire that will make great bulls and great females, which is not an easy thing to find.  He should easily be the top replacement for Ali and may turn out to be better as time goes on.