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Offline justintime

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Re: Some herd sires from the past
« Reply #135 on: April 30, 2013, 06:04:20 PM »
Im gonna use Mark 4 if I can get a retro bred female that goes back to rodeo (FHF Rodeos Hope-lowest BW Rodeo Ever) and either Byland Dazzler or GB Daybreak Express on the other side.I think Cody Ice had either Big Mac or a son at Louisville in 2002-HUGE-But the bulls with the Maine from up North that Ive really been invilved with 1 way or another are: Strathore Irish Magic, and Echodale Top Draft-Top Draft changed like a fullbloos-and they can change a Shorthorn faster than anything else Ive seen-for better or worse. O0

I would bet my farm that Echodale Top Draft does not have Maine in his pedigree, but if he does it would be from genetics back further in his pedigree than the Echodale herd. Reg Daly, who bred Top Draft, was as honest and down to earth breeder as I have ever known. He loved his Shorthorn cattle, and the only thing closer to his heart were his family. Reg passed away a few years ago, but I can still remember sitting at his kitchen table and discussing the breed. I can guarantee you that he had absolutely no time for anyone who bred bogus cattle to try to get ahead. He was a master feeder and he raised his family from a few Shorthorn cows on a tiny farm in Quebec.

As for Irish Magic, I have oftentimes wondered about his heritage. I just happened to be at Strathore the day he was born. He was an amazing looking calf and he was not quite dry yet when Lorne Pimmett took us out to see the new calf that had been born a few hours before. His dam was a powerful female, and to me, she appeared to look like she could have been a half blood Maine, but I have absolutely no proof. I remember making the comment to a friend travelling with me, that she looked a lot like the Capone half bloods we had at home.  I am not going to start naming other bulls and/or bloodlines that could possibly be suspect. Many breeders have put their faith and investments into buying some of these genetics and I don't think it is really proper to bash them on a public forum.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 10:47:38 PM by justintime »
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Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Some herd sires from the past
« Reply #136 on: April 30, 2013, 08:46:54 PM »
If I were one of those breeders who put money, time and hope on these animals that I supposed to be what their pedigrees said, I really would like very much to know the truth about these genetic errors caused by other breeders. Of course that on the first moment will to be disappointed, but relevant information are always welcome.

I prefer to discover the truth in skilful time to save some important and rare semen than finding out later, wasting rare and expensive genetics because I was not informed in akilful time to avoid increased costs on these animals.

If the breeder is in his goal these genetic selection program, he will look for new options in time to not lost your full work.

For this reason, always ask the north american fellows of this group for informations about bulls or cows that were overlooked genetically through falsified pedigrees.

Truth before all!

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Some herd sires from the past
« Reply #137 on: April 30, 2013, 09:30:36 PM »
Here is video of Mandalong Super Flag

http://www.browarny.com/legacy/video/clip27.html

There are several lines of bulls originating in Western Canada that descend in the paternal line from Manadalong Super Flag. Mandalong Super Flag was born in Australia in 1971 and imported to Canada in 1972 by Gary and Terry Carter, Newbiggon Shorthorns. Super Flag was a Grand Champion at the Denver  National Western Stock Show. In Canada Super Flag had a huge influence.
The one line was the Eionmor Ideals. They descend from Mandalong Super Flag through Miami Flag 10G, Winalot Big Mac, Lanalta Whiteout. Whiteout was the sire of the Ideals. The one son Eionmor Ideal 69F was a very well muscled bull. He in turn sired Muridale Buster 14K, Eionmor Ideal 4M, Eionmor Ideal 25M, Eionmor Ideal  61M and Eionmor Ideal 50P. Muridale Buster 14K sired Muridale Buster  2nd 76P plus innumerable others. 4M sired Six S Samson 25S and Six S Ranger 12R. Eionmor Ideal 50P was a senior sire at Eionmor and a son Eionmor Ideal 82T is now in service. The Buster and Ideal 61M are definitely calving ease lines.
Another sire line descending from Flag through Eionmor are the Eionmor Mr. Gus bulls. Flag sired Crowfoot Flag, sire of the Gafa Mochican bull used at Eionmor for several years. There he sired Eionmor Mr. Gus 30B, Eionmor Mr Gus 80C, Eionmor Mr Gus 85C, Eionmor Mr Gus 58F. The Eionmor Highlanders were sons of 80C. Another 80C son was Glenford Gus 4H in turn the sire of Star P Matrix a popular sire first at Butterfields and then at Horseshoe Creek and ACC Cattle in Saskatchewan. Also by 80C are Studers Pretender 96th and TM Gus 36S.
Still a third line was the Ultra line. Flag sired Crestdale Super Flag 14G a high selling bull at the Regina Bull sale. 14G sired Manitoba Sunrise used at Saskvalley and Huberdale.  A son of Manitoba Sunrise was Butterfield Ultramarine used at Eionmor where he sired Eionmor Ultra 8C the sire of Eionmor Ultra 88G. In turn 88G sired the likes of Alta Cedar Ultimate 130K used at Muridale and Evergreen and Alta cedar ultimate 8J used at Saskvalley.  One of 8Js sons with huge impact is Saskvalley Navajo 153M now being used at Nick Steinke and Saskvalley Pioneer 126P a National Champion bull for Horseshoe Creek and Fantasy Lane with calves worldwide. This line is being carried on at Eionmor with senior herd sire Eionmor Ultra 4M.
Newbiggon Supreme was a son of Mandalong Super Flag, out of the imported Australian cow Mandalong Roany 51st. He was a twin born with Newbiggon Powerline used in the DN Eden and Thorncliffe herds in Saskatchewan. Newbiggon Supreme was a senior herd sire for Dave and Pat Duries Duralta Shorthorns. At the Duralta Dispersal several herd sires were purchased in dam.  Some of these bulls were Bar C Supreme 6H used at Carters in BC. Duncairn Supreme and Scotsmorr Supreme 7H used in Saskatchewan. Sunalta Royal supreme 25H used at Dusty Valley in Alberta and Butterfield Krakatoa used at Butterfields in Alberta. Krakatoa is still seeing use AI across Canada.
One other line descending from Mandalong Super Flag again through Miami Flag 10G, Winalot Big Mac, Winalot Mighty Maxim then Butterfields F ls Texas out of a Butterfield Krakatoa daughter. Texass two influential sons were T Bar Mactexas and Butterfield Able Seaman. Both of these bulls have descendants in Canada, USA, Great Britain, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia.



Do you have another link for this video. I tryed and isn't running! Wish copy it on my computer. Thanks you.

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Some herd sires from the past
« Reply #138 on: April 30, 2013, 09:33:04 PM »
I just got my semen storage bill and was looking at my inventory. Some of the sires from the past we have stored are
Maplewood Drive Princeton
Scotsdale Karnwood
Miami Baron 20B
Weston Ablo
Four Point Royal 13th
Cactus Flat Winner 4W
Meriwong Royal Grant
Mandalong Royal Ferrari
Mandalong Super Flag
Newbiggon Jumbo
Newbiggon Super Star
Matlock Torpedo 49T
and a Banner Royal Oak but not sure which one until it's checked?
oh and there's still 4 straws of Ayatollah,the demand for this would be huge! ;D
That's all bulls born pre1987.
What do others have? Some breeds keep track of older bulls available.

Do you is able to sale some embryos sired by these awesome bulls?

Offline justintime

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Re: Some herd sires from the past
« Reply #139 on: May 01, 2013, 07:45:53 AM »
If I were one of those breeders who put money, time and hope on these animals that I supposed to be what their pedigrees said, I really would like very much to know the truth about these genetic errors caused by other breeders. Of course that on the first moment will to be disappointed, but relevant information are always welcome.

I prefer to discover the truth in skilful time to save some important and rare semen than finding out later, wasting rare and expensive genetics because I was not informed in akilful time to avoid increased costs on these animals.

If the breeder is in his goal these genetic selection program, he will look for new options in time to not lost your full work.

For this reason, always ask the north american fellows of this group for informations about bulls or cows that were overlooked genetically through falsified pedigrees.

Truth before all!

I do not think it is proper to discuss possibilities about corrupt pedigrees in any breed, that a person cannot prove without any doubt. I can think of many sires over the years, from several different breeds, that I questioned their heritage. I can't prove that anything was added to their genetic make-up so if it is just " assumed" it is nothing but rumour and could be totally wrong. I think a conversation to take place between two people is a different issue than public bashing, without the ability to prove your assumptions, on a public board like this.

If I didn't feel this was the case, I could go on for a long time about many different lines in several different breeds. I do think it is harder to play with pedigrees than it was prior to DNA. I think mistakes can still be make and we see several every year from animals that do not parentage test by DNA. Many of these can be explained but a few never do get figured out.

In the past, some breeders were pretty bold in fudging pedigrees. I remember a friend going to help one of his neighbor's ( who was a well known Polled Hereford breeder) catch up with the paperwork of registering about 300 calves. Shortly after they got started at this task, my friend asked for the sire of a particular calf. The owner's response was " What bulls are really popular right now?" My friend said this guy was totally serious and he said it didn't take very long to figure out that he wasn't going to help him any longer.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 08:22:09 AM by justintime »
Experience is what you get when you don't have it when you need it.

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
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Offline Okotoks

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Re: Some herd sires from the past
« Reply #140 on: February 07, 2015, 10:55:13 AM »
I just got my semen storage bill and was looking at my inventory. Some of the sires from the past we have stored are
Maplewood Drive Princeton
Scotsdale Karnwood
Miami Baron 20B
Weston Ablo
Four Point Royal 13th
Cactus Flat Winner 4W
Meriwong Royal Grant
Mandalong Royal Ferrari
Mandalong Super Flag
Newbiggon Jumbo
Newbiggon Super Star
Matlock Torpedo 49T
and a Banner Royal Oak but not sure which one until it's checked?
oh and there's still 4 straws of Ayatollah,the demand for this would be huge! ;D
That's all bulls born pre1987.
What do others have? Some breeds keep track of older bulls available.

Do you is able to sale some embryos sired by these awesome bulls?
A lot of my "exportable" embryos were mistakenly put in a domestic tank at the transplant centre. Logic defies why being stored in liquid nitrogen in the wrong tank disqualifies them for export but most things about cross border shipments defy logic!
Last month Eionmor Lily 39S a 100% cow of Hatfield's was flushed to some of our Four Point Royal 13th semen. He is the sire of Gafa Mohican's dam. Lily 39S ispictured here during a tour of Eionmor the year before their dispersal during an early snowfall. She was one of my favourites that day!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 11:07:46 AM by Okotoks »

Offline Okotoks

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Re: Some herd sires from the past
« Reply #141 on: July 02, 2015, 10:58:11 AM »
Well here is a photo taken at Newbiggon Shorthorns of Diamond Mystical Susan 30M with her 86lb red polled Newbiggon Jumbo heifer. The photo was taken last Saturday a couple of hours after she was born. Looking on is 30M's two year old Northern Legend 3N daughter and her white Mandalong Royal Ferrari heifer calf born Mar. 26, also 86 lbs.at birth. The bigger white heifer calf is a Mandalong Super Flag out of another Northern Legend cow(cow is a full sister to Hatfield's ACC Legend bull) The Flag calf was born Apr.2 with a 100lb. BW.
I need to get photos of 30M's ET calves by Mandalong Super Flag born a few days ago. They are pretty awesome. (clapping)

Second photo is the Mandalong Royal Ferrari heifer.
Here is a photo taken yesterday of that baby Newbiggon Jumbo heifer calf 4 years later, Newbiggon Yessiree Susan 30Y. Of the older sires we have used I think the Jumbo's are very close to hitting the mark for what we want in a cow.

Offline knabe

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Re: Some herd sires from the past
« Reply #142 on: July 02, 2015, 11:48:22 AM »
looks like a pushme pullyou. are they more efficient with two mouths?

 

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