Starting a new Shorthorn Association for Cattle Breeders

Thinking about starting a new shorthorn association.This one would be friendly to the cow breeder.Not charge for registering bulls.No testing .Honor system which I think is still around.Could make it World Wide.Anythoughts or Partners.As long as parents have a registration number they can be entered.Must be Red, White or Roan. Any Thoughts. Any Names.Shorthorn Universal Association?

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What are you trying to accomplish by doing this?

I've been approached about this before. I think there is some interest in it. Or enough frustration with the present one.

trevorgreycattleco said:

I've been approached about this before. I think there is some interest in it. Or enough frustration with the present one.

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write a constructive letter, have people sign it and send it to the association.

alternatively, ask to contribute to the journal.

maybe the new guy is doing something already.

So would you get to pick and chose who got to join? What criteria would it take to join the new one that the ASA doesn't have? What would that accomplish if most ASA members joined both?

I think Knabe brought up some very good ideas. There is going to be 3 openings on the board of directors in Jan. at the Nat'l meeting, go for it. Try to make some changes by strengthening what we have already instead of dividing and making everyone weaker.

I guess I am left wondering what the purpose of this new association would be?  I cannot see any reason for any person who wants to sell bulls not being willing to pay the registration costs. IMO, if you aren't willing to pay this cost you certainly will not be doing any breed any good. Just my own thinking but splitting a breed is never the answer to anything. Like Doc said above, if you want change in your breed association, do it from within. It is a democratic vote and I am quite sure you could run for a position on the board of directors. That is the same principles on which our countries were founded. 

Doc said:

I think Knabe brought up some very good ideas. There is going to be 3 openings on the board of directors in Jan. at the Nat'l meeting, go for it. Try to make some changes by strengthening what we have already instead of dividing and making everyone weaker.

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I agree with Doc. Take the time to fill out your delegate votes and call your delegates to tell them your opinions on things.

justintime said:

That is the same principles on which our countries were founded.

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And just like our countries, the ASA is controlled by a few lobbyists who have their pocketbook in mind as opposed to what's best for long term viability.  There is no legitimate explanation for opposing mandatory performance reporting. The is no explanation for not establishing registration standards.

I propose an association whose standards are like that of the Hereford Association.  Documentation is the only way to gain legitimacy. As far as 'no charge' that just sounds ludacris to me. Clearly, these initiatives are going to increase cost to the producer- but I'm fine with that- SO LONG AS there is some ACCOUNTABILITY as far as how the money is allocated.  I have no interest in sending some rich kid on a month long vacation to Australia. I have no interest in flying reps all over North America to attend sales at the expense of the organization. And much much more but my gf is hollering its time to go-

-XBAR- said:

ludacris

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spelling/punctuation error.  invalidate entire post.

knabe said:

-XBAR- said:

ludacris

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spelling/punctuation error.  invalidate entire post.

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Only if your questioning someone's credibility in the process  (lol)

Besides, I'm a big Chris Bridges fan.

If you reside in the USA you will want to incorporate in any state of your choice. Starting a new association or "club" isn't hugely difficult or expensive but finding a respected Registrar to manage your new association's pedigrees will be not easy. Your choices are limited as the ASA uses ABRI in Australia I believe. And, CLRC in Canada is an excellent Registrar but will probably reject any proposal that might antagonize the CSA in Canada.
In my view, it would be unwise to abandon genetic testing or any scientific progress and tools. 

-XBAR- said:

justintime said:

That is the same principles on which our countries were founded.

Click to expand...

And just like our countries, the ASA is controlled by a few lobbyists who have their pocketbook in mind as opposed to what's best for long term viability.  There is no legitimate explanation for opposing mandatory performance reporting. The is no explanation for not establishing registration standards.

I propose an association whose standards are like that of the Hereford Association.  Documentation is the only way to gain legitimacy. As far as 'no charge' that just sounds ludacris to me. Clearly, these initiatives are going to increase cost to the producer- but I'm fine with that- SO LONG AS there is some ACCOUNTABILITY as far as how the money is allocated.  I have no interest in sending some rich kid on a month long vacation to Australia. I have no interest in flying reps all over North America to attend sales at the expense of the organization. And much much more but my gf is hollering its time to go-

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Once again try to change the "lobbyists" by running for the board yourself or help promote someone to that position.
I don't have a problem with sending someone to Australia(I really don't know how much the ASA pays). As far as the sales go , I think the original idea behind that idea was to give the everyday person a chance to get face to face with the reps. I think it should go a step further and they should make farm visits to paid members of the Nat'l Assoc. in the area.

-XBAR- said:

Only if your questioning someone's credibility in the process  (lol)

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Another error. It's not your, it's you are or you're. And yes I am questioning your credibility.

From your rants, you would either like to be king or a tory, or have pure democracy, really tyranny, but it is clear you don't want to run for office as justifying your ideas in a representative arena and in person requiring running for office and a little more courage than you have. Much better to complain in an online forum.

Run for office, win, and show us how to run an an association. We are all eager to learn. Maybe you could enlist all your supporters in your emails and get them to vote for you. From your one extensive example, they agree with me more than you on government and a process to air grievances and solutions.

Maybe you could hook up with occupy wall street and set up an association.

-XBAR- said:

justintime said:

That is the same principles on which our countries were founded.

Click to expand...

And just like our countries, the ASA is controlled by a few lobbyists who have their pocketbook in mind as opposed to what's best for long term viability.  There is no legitimate explanation for opposing mandatory performance reporting. The is no explanation for not establishing registration standards.

I propose an association whose standards are like that of the Hereford Association.  Documentation is the only way to gain legitimacy. As far as 'no charge' that just sounds ludacris to me. Clearly, these initiatives are going to increase cost to the producer- but I'm fine with that- SO LONG AS there is some ACCOUNTABILITY as far as how the money is allocated.  I have no interest in sending some rich kid on a month long vacation to Australia. I have no interest in flying reps all over North America to attend sales at the expense of the organization. And much much more but my gf is hollering its time to go-

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I have to disagree with the statement of a few lobbyists running the association. There has been examples of this in the past, however, I do not believe it is true today. Take a look at the present board. It is a good cross section of breeders from all sectors of the Shorthorn breed. I also disagree with the statement of sending kids to Australia. I think this is an excellent program and it helps get a better understanding of the breed in other parts of the world. I cannot think of many " rich kids" who have been selected to go to Australia or any from Australia that came here. I have had several of the Aussie ambassadors  come and stay with us, and one of them returned a year later and worked for me for 3 months. I am not 100% sure of the total details of this program now, but a few years ago, these ambassadors only got subsidied for their air travel to the country. IMO, it is a great program.
I have had ASA reps come to many of our sales, and I have always found them to try to do some herd visits when they are in an area. I think it is important for breed employees to get out and talk with the memberships and shows and sales is a good place for some of this to happen. Of course, there is much more to their jobs that just doing this, but getting out to these events is also a part.
I have been involved in many breed organizations over the years, and I have found that none are perfect. I still maintain that the best method to seek change is to get involved and try to design change. You don't neccesarily have to run for the board to do this, but if you are so inclined, that is a great way. Talking to your present board members, and association employees and writing letters are also important. Maybe I am just old school, but I cannot see any benefit to trying to start a new breed registry and association. I also predict that there would be lots of discontent as I can see lots of opposing ideas how this new association should be run from its members.

There is no legitimate explanation for opposing mandatory performance reporting. The is no explanation for not establishing registration standards.


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In your pessimistic mind you would never believe the numbers people sent in anyway.

I would be interested in forming a new breed. If I could get a couple more people on board. It would be kinda like the Beefmaster deal..........except it would be a Shorthorn-Red Angus composite. Its a lot easier to do it through the plus deal in the Shorthorn breed. If you did create say a "Shangus" breed you wouldn't have name recognition like the Shorthorn........so the name would HAVE to be self explanaty. Take the Braunveigh(or however you spell it). I bet 80% of the people think its a Brahma-Gelbvieh composite. That was my first guess. The main thing mandatory performance reporting does is force data that a stayability deal can be calculated. It would take money to promote the deal....a lawyer to set it up.......would it be non profit......since I hate Obamma's guts the Shangus would never be approved by the IRS.

I don't get why you mandatory reporting people don't just submit performance, leading by example. Seems to me you would be miles ahead of those who don't. People would beat a path to your doorstep. There's a huge opportunity for you to take advantage of but instead you spend so much time bashing everyone your spouse has to yell at you to stop posting.