Suggestions, comments, opinions please......

Hi, I had posted pics of my son's first steer several weeks ago.  We had our show this past weekend.  He placed 4th out of 9 (very small local show).  He received compliments from many people prior to, and after the judging regarding his steer having excellent finish and being an overall nice steer that should have placed much higher.  Unfotunately, the JUdge did not agree.  This is what the Judge said, "the 4th place calf is probably the most complete calf in this ring, he is put together nice, moves out nice, but is just not wide enough when you look at him from behind.  He's just not fat enought".  The grand he said was "almost over finished and getting stale, did not walk as smoothly as he would like, but he likes the amount of volume".  For the reserve...."I have to stay with what I like, which is a fat steer, so I choose the red one".  That is the Judge's opinion and we'll live with it, but my question is, is there any way to help a calf widen out from the rear, or does genetics play a large part in that"  My son will be going to pick his next calf soon, any suggestions to assist him in choosing a great one??

Oh, forgot to add that he weighed in at 1340.  He was 1400 the day before, and we were  instructed to pull him off water to get him lighter.  The grand was 1355 and the reserve 1305.

I can't really think of anything you could do to the steer. You might have already tried widening out his stance while in the show ring with the show stick.Also setting up the steer differently at each spot the judge looks at the calf (mainly side and rear views). This would need to be practiced at home prior to shows. It can take a while to get this all down, but in the end its really worth it. It also makes the calf easier to handle if you give it enough time. I'm not saying your son hasn't done this but if he hasn't it could help you out at some up coming shows. Do you show at slick shear shows?

Yes, our show is slick shear.  My son did a good job setting his steer up for rear and side viewing.  The picture I posted was taken at a weird angle, snapped quickly in between the photographer's pics.  I was just wanting to know if there was anyting that could be done, other than genetics to make a steer's butt get wider.  Thanks!

After thinking a while, I remember hearing people using paline (unsure on spelling). If i recall correctly they would top dress it during feeding, at least 3-4 weeks before show. Only use on market animals (if you have any show heifers). I believe it adds thickness. Cattle can sometimes be more temperamental. I've never used this myself , but I had a friend use it on his steer once. His steer got a little thicker but also got taller. Might want to find out some more info if your interested in using. It's legal to use on cattle in Iowa but that might not be the case where your from. Hope this helps. -mike

We used Paylean once for a show hog, but have not heard of it used for a steer......anyone else ever use paylean for cattle??

I'm kind of interested to hear about the paylean thing also. We use it on hogs. Anywhere from 4 oz. per day all the way to 1 pound per day. Depends on the hog. We usually topdress for 14 days, off 7 days, and back on again. Keep in mind, this product can and will dry up joints, so glucosamine is a must. Also, paylean will pronounce muscle better, not add more.

I think your sons first steer is great. He looks very nice for a first steer, congrats. Yeah its all up to the judge when everyone enters the ring, nobodys opinions matter. Well, being a fat show the judge will most likely pick the fattest, muscled steer. If your steer had more finish he would of been placed higher. Finish is the most important factor with steers, then follows muscle , and structure and depth. Evey judge is different, some will select a sounder complete steer over a crippled heavy muscle steer, viseversa as well it just depends.

Next year try getting the calf fatter, but your on the right track as far as selecting balance, correctness, and soundness.  Muscle is genetic and must be there as a young calf when you select it. When you get a calf fat they will naturally get wider over their top and hindquarter. You did a great job though!!

SlickTxMaine said:

  That is the Judge's opinion and we'll live with it, but my question is, is there any way to help a calf widen out from the rear, or does genetics play a large part in that"  My son will be going to pick his next calf soon, any suggestions to assist him in choosing a great one??

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I have allways said" What you see as a 6-8 month old calf in the profile, his top, his rear, his depth, his front, is what you will get at your fair"  Yes it is true that you can put more fat and muscle on them with some products......BUT............Test the waters If you line up 10 - 6-8 month old calf and then take pictures of the same calfs a Fair,,,,,Most of us that know cattle will be able to match the youth picture with the terminal picture.( and color does not matter )

So when picking your next year steer look for what you are wanting at FAIR or Terminal Date but in a smaller shape  Becasue if you have small top, you are not going to get a hugh top....if you have a butt that rounds off, you are not going to get a square one......If you get a tight hearted non deep,  you will not get a deep steer.........if you are heavy fronted you will not get zip fronted.......it you find a steer with no lower 3/4 you will not get a heavy lower 3/4 steer.......if your steer breaks its back young, it will do it at terminal fair..........FOR the MOST PART THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN........YES SOME OF US HAVE FIXED SOME PROBLEMS BUT MOST CAN'T BE

Just my two cents

Its Illegal for paylean to be used in Hogs, but not cattle where I'm from. Hopefully somebody responds that knows more about it than i do.

King Arthur said:

Its Illegal for paylean to be used in Hogs, but not cattle where I'm from. Hopefully somebody responds that knows more about it than i do.

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I know it is in sheep but don't think so in hogs unless they've changed the rules.

Red

There is a type of paylean for cattle. But I know people who didn't check it out and fed regular pig paylean and killed their steers. So if your going to feed it make sure you get the cattle kind.

Opti-Flexx is what is legal to feed to show steers the last 28 days on the feed. Some people say 42 days. We fed the last 28 and increased the amount as the calf increase feed consumption. You have to have a fat steer for it too work. If they are not fat it will ring them out.

What affects can you expect from the Optiflexx?

I know it works best if the calf has lots of guts

Looks Good.

It's a little hard to see just what your steer looks like when viewed from behind, but my opinion, from a genetic point of view, is that he will only have so much natural thickness.  His hooks aren't going to get any wider than his genetics allow.  You can get him fatter but width is pretty hard to add. A person can "stand 'em wide" but if the natural width isn't there, they'll look sort of peaked from bottom to top.  An experienced judge, or cattle person, can tell the difference.  Even from birth, calves have to stand wide.  Even when they're newborns, you can see the ones that will hang some serious muscle on their rounds because the little guys stand so wide right from the start.  They look sort of funny and like a truck could drive between those back legs. Those whose back feet want to be stepping on each other will never, imo, turn into those really wide finished steers.  So, I'd suggest that when you're looking to replace this steer, you look at them from behind without anyone posing them.  Just watch them walk and see how they track.  Try to find a way to do this when they're walking free, not when someone is leading them.  Then, watch them as they stand casually.  They should stand wide by choice, not because someone is posing them. Also look for good length, thickness across the top, a clean front, and nice extension up front.  I'd also ask you to remember that your show was just one judge's opinion on one day.  Another judge might have penalized the first and reserve calves for being overfinished.  That's just as much a fault, in my book, as one that is correctly finished so as to grade choice or better and yield about a 2.  Best of luck.  Nice steer, from what I can see.

Thanks to all for your thoughts and opinions.  I also told my son that with a different judge on the same day, the lineup may have been very different.  Oh well, these past 10 months have been very educational!  I have attached a couple more pics for your viewing.  Thanks agian!

and a couple more....

SlickTxMaine said:

Thanks to all for your thoughts and opinions.  I also told my son that with a different judge on the same day, the lineup may have been very different.  Oh well, these past 10 months have been very educational!  I have attached a couple more pics for your viewing.  Thanks agian!

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He's not a bad steer at all, imo, and he's plenty wide from behind.  I think a judge could penalize him a little for not carrying muscle down past the round as well as some steers may.  Also, from the pics, I'd guess that he's not quite finished.  Cattle dependably put their fat on from "front to back".  So, usually, the first place to begin to fill is the brisket.  Then, as they mature and add fat, the fat spreads down the ribs, moves back, and finally seems to end in the cod as well as around the tailhead.  I can't see much fat in his brisket at all and also can't see any around his tailhead.  He has lots of natural thickness so maybe if he'd carried a little more finish, he just might have placed a little higher.  Assuming this was a terminal show for you, I think many judges would have penalized him a little for being underfinished.