Suggestions, comments, opinions please......

dori36 said:

SlickTxMaine said:

Thanks to all for your thoughts and opinions.  I also told my son that with a different judge on the same day, the lineup may have been very different.  Oh well, these past 10 months have been very educational!  I have attached a couple more pics for your viewing.  Thanks agian!

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He's not a bad steer at all, imo, and he's plenty wide from behind.  I think a judge could penalize him a little for not carrying muscle down past the round as well as some steers may.  Also, from the pics, I'd guess that he's not quite finished.  Cattle dependably put their fat on from "front to back".  So, usually, the first place to begin to fill is the brisket.  Then, as they mature and add fat, the fat spreads down the ribs, moves back, and finally seems to end in the cod as well as around the tailhead.  I can't see much fat in his brisket at all and also can't see any around his tailhead.  He has lots of natural thickness so maybe if he'd carried a little more finish, he just might have placed a little higher.  Assuming this was a terminal show for you, I think many judges would have penalized him a little for being underfinished.

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I think you said it exactly how I would say it and I would add What CM Cattle said


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It's a little hard to see just what your steer looks like when viewed from behind, but my opinion, from a genetic point of view, is that he will only have so much natural thickness.  His hooks aren't going to get any wider than his genetics allow.  You can get him fatter but width is pretty hard to add. A person can "stand 'em wide" but if the natural width isn't there, they'll look sort of peaked from bottom to top.  An experienced judge, or cattle person, can tell the difference.  Even from birth, calves have to stand wide.  Even when they're newborns, you can see the ones that will hang some serious muscle on their rounds because the little guys stand so wide right from the start.  They look sort of funny and like a truck could drive between those back legs. Those whose back feet want to be stepping on each other will never, imo, turn into those really wide finished steers.  So, I'd suggest that when you're looking to replace this steer, you look at them from behind without anyone posing them.  Just watch them walk and see how they track.  Try to find a way to do this when they're walking free, not when someone is leading them.  Then, watch them as they stand casually.  They should stand wide by choice, not because someone is posing them. Also look for good length, thickness across the top, a clean front, and nice extension up front.  I'd also ask you to remember that your show was just one judge's opinion on one day.  Another judge might have penalized the first and reserve calves for being overfinished.  That's just as much a fault, in my book, as one that is correctly finished so as to grade choice or better and yield about a 2.  Best of luck.  Nice steer, from what I can see.

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Since we're green at this......what would you all have done to get more finish on him?  He has been on a finisher feed and beet pulp from the beginning.  The last three months his ration has been the same amount beet pulp as finisher, with steam flaked corn and a pound of calf manna added.  What could we have done differently?   

SlickTxMaine said:

Since we're green at this......what would you all have done to get more finish on him?  He has been on a finisher feed and beet pulp from the beginning.  The last three months his ration has been the same amount beet pulp as finisher, with steam flaked corn and a pound of calf manna added.  What could we have done differently?     

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The others here who have lots of experience finishing them would be the best to answer this.  But, to help them answer more easily, how many pounds of each, besides the Calf Manna, were you feeding him?  And, how old was he "from the beginning"?

He was getting 7 lbs beet pulp, 6 lbs finisher, 2 lbs steam flaked corn and 1 lb calf manna twice a day.  We got him May 1st and he was 450 lbs then, and had just been weaned from the cow.  Lifeline is his sire and the cow is an angus. 

He needed more corn, IMHO.  14 lbs. of beet pulp per day is quite a bit for a finishing ration!  And if you mean you split that amount twice a day, that's still quite a bit of beet pulp & it wasn't nearly enough corn/finisher, IMHO.  Regardless, he needed more corn & I think that a fat supplement would've helped too. 

He received that amount twice per day.....so total of 14 lbs pulp, 12 lbs feet, etc... We were feeding what the breeder advised us to feed him.  He was worried he would get too heavy, as judges in this area usually dock for over weight.  This was our first year, so we did as we were told.  We will probably venture out on our own a little this year.  You guys are all so helpful....I really appreciate it!

The breeder was right about him getting too big.   On calves like that, you need to totally skip the grower stage & start in with the corn/fat supplement very early on, keep the protein down & get them fat.  In other words, try to finish them a bit prematurely.  Probably should've fed 1 lb. of Natural Glo instead of the Calf Manna.  More fat/less protein doing that.  Cooking corn would help & you obviously don't have to worry shedding the hair.  But, the best thing to do is get a calf that will finish at 1,300 or so.       

  1st of all, for your 1st time with a beef project you have done very well. If you try to over analyze this, you run a good chance of just confusing yourself. Please be careful not to get into the thinking that you need to have all of these different additives and that x product is better than y product and what about z product? That all just gets way out of hand in a hurry. Hind site is 20/20. A 1400 lb calf is sure heavy enough, but maybe he wasn't carrying enough finish, so yeah we should of had him consuming more calories, starches, energy,(corn,fat). I would still find a mentor that has fed a few cattle and find a helpful nutritionist that you can trust. If you have a starting weight and time and give them a finish wt. & time, they have software to plug ingredients into that will get you to your goals. In the meantime you need to try to train your eyes to pick the kind of calves that you think will fit the show ring bill for your area. You will more than likely be able to improve the most as far as your placing in the show ring the most just by finding the type and quality of calves that are bred for the ring. Whether this is practical or not has been & will be debated.
  Not saying that you are complaining or doing this, B/c I only get half of a feel that you maybe, but one thing that we try to stress here, is to be real about what we have in the barn or otherwise it is hard to improve your own cattle. For instance, if we're sitting watching a show, and we always try to place the class along with the judge, and we are agreeing for the most part all day long, then our calves come in and it's oh that can't be right, no it is right and you need to be honest about where you are @ and decide, what and how are we going to get better or are we satisfied and know the direction that we want to go and it will swing back to us. One of the worst things that we as parents can possibly do is to make excuses for why we didn't do better or better yet want to jump in the pick up on the way home and blame the judge about how our calves did because our/your kids will end up not wanting to take responsibilities for anything,and blame others, not just in the cattle/hog/sheep showring, but in life, so please be careful what you say and try to honestly learn from each trip out in a constructive way. It will take you a long way and teach lessons for life. Brent

Great advice Brent - thanks!  My son was really bummed the night of the Judging, but is over it now, and talking about his next calf.  We'll go soon to pick it out.  We have definitely learned a lot with this first calf.  I know there are tons of additives and supplements on the market, and no matter who you talk to, they will recommend something different.  Thanks to all, I'll keep you posted on the next one!

Hey, not to beat a dead horse, but 90% of the supplements out there are just snake oil.  We only use a couple different supplements, one protein, and one of two fat supplements.  A good base ration can get you a LONG way.

Great job on a first project, I hope you guys had a lot of fun with it!