Sull Salute

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jagerbeef

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Is sull salute the shorthorn bull relevant anymore as far as shorthorns are concerned?  Saw some on an online sale that started out at $30 and it sells retail for $50.  It was on Caldwell Willoughby online sale called genetic gems embryo and semen sale.

thanks
 

Mainevent

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I have salute that is a great cow. Also attached is her calf this year out of monopoly
 

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RyanChandler

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It hurts too bad to bite my tongue--  how in the world can you use a descriptor such as "great" with a cow that has an udder like that!?!?!  That cow is average and her udder is terrible!  Like TGCC said,  the bull in question is in the bottom 1% for birth weight and the bottom 1% for calving ease. 
 

Mainevent

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Ryab I don't base my cows off beautiful udders. Seen too many great uddered cows milk very little as long as the cow can produce enough milk to raise a calf healthily. Please pick that cow apart besides the udder and tell me what you'd fix?
 

Gargan

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she does seem to be raising a calf that will prob bring north of $5k, so pick your poison. (thumbsup)
 

justintime

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I have only had 7 Salute calves born, and I have never assisted any at birth. His best son born here is our HC Timeline 17T herd sire. This is the 4th year we have sold his sons in our bull sale, and this year 9 of them averaged $4144, and all went to commercial producers. Our top selling heifer at $5150, was out of a Salute daughter. I have a few Salute cows in my herd, and I find them to be excellent brood cows. Mine all have great udders and they milk well. They are fertile and raise good calves.

I know there have been lots of talk about how hard he was to calve but my experience has been pretty good. We are winding down our 4th calf crop from Timeline and we have only assisted one calf that was backwards... and I pretty well assist any backwards calf even if it was sired by a Longhorn bull.
 

RyanChandler

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Well Grant, with your results clearly being the exception, what factor would you say is responsible for the disparaging difference in ease of calving between your cattle and everyone else's when using those genetics?  I sure wish your cattle had more difficulty with them as your results w/ Timeline have sure done a number on Major Leroy's EPD's.
 

justintime

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Ryan, I am just stating my experience. I am not saying he is the best bull out there, but in my herd, my Salute calves have been born as easily as any other sire I have used, including Leroy. It is hard to generalize on only 7 calves being born here, but I would not consider them to be harder calving that some other sires. Everyone told me, I was nuts to even use Timeline because he was sired by the infamous "cow killer" Salute. I felt I had to try him in my herd when he produced so much performance compared to any other sire I had used. In our bull test he indexed 148 for ADG and also had an index of 142 for rib eye area. For those who may not understand, he gained 48% more than the average of the pen of 62 bulls and he had 42% more ribeye area than the average of the pen. He is passing this on to his offspring as well... and the best part of this, is we are close to being through our 4th calf crop from Timeline and we have yet to touch a calf at birth... none other than the one that was backwards. I weighed every calf at birth and at weaning and submitted the data to the ASA. His BW EPD and CE have not moved much. I am not sure how many hundreds of calves I will have to submit data on to see his EPDs adjust properly. I am constantly told to keep sending in my records and the numbers will adjust properly. I hate to be skeptical but....
 

huntaway

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justintime said:
I weighed every calf at birth and at weaning and submitted the data to the ASA. His BW EPD and CE have not moved much. I am not sure how many hundreds of calves I will have to submit data on to see his EPDs adjust properly. I am constantly told to keep sending in my records and the numbers will adjust properly. I hate to be skeptical but....
They would adjust quicker if they where linked with other herds recording relevant data or if he was used with a high accuracy sire in the same contempory group. With no variance in your calving ease data you won't see that change much. We have the same problem with imported sires, it takes a few years for their numbers to settle down but the herd they are used in can speed this up.
 

aj

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From what I have heard....he's not a problem on 1900 pound registered Shorthorn cows. But is a problem if bred to a ranch cow. I have heard he has destroyed alot of kiddies show heifers.....due to a c section. jmo
 

RyanChandler

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huntaway said:
justintime said:
I weighed every calf at birth and at weaning and submitted the data to the ASA. His BW EPD and CE have not moved much. I am not sure how many hundreds of calves I will have to submit data on to see his EPDs adjust properly. I am constantly told to keep sending in my records and the numbers will adjust properly. I hate to be skeptical but....
They would adjust quicker if they where linked with other herds recording relevant data or if he was used with a high accuracy sire in the same contemporary group.

That is the problem, the high accuracy bull's (Major Leroy) epds are rising because of no variance between his offspring and the Salute son's. 
 

huntaway

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-XBAR- said:
huntaway said:
justintime said:
I weighed every calf at birth and at weaning and submitted the data to the ASA. His BW EPD and CE have not moved much. I am not sure how many hundreds of calves I will have to submit data on to see his EPDs adjust properly. I am constantly told to keep sending in my records and the numbers will adjust properly. I hate to be skeptical but....
They would adjust quicker if they where linked with other herds recording relevant data or if he was used with a high accuracy sire in the same contemporary group.

That is the problem, the high accuracy bull's (Major Leroy) epds are rising because of no variance between his offspring and the Salute son's.

I think that's where the linkages with other herds are important. Semen is available on both bulls and there are probably a number of sons being used that if data is being submitted should be improving accuracy. We have major Leroy at about breed average for birth weight and 30th percentile for calving ease, would be interested where he sits up there. I hear a lot that the epd's don't reflect what people see on there own property, but I think in a lot of situation the issue is with their data not the system. When we started with purchased cows I agreed the epd's did not match but within 4 or 5 years of using high accuracy durham project bulls with our herdsires and recording every trait on allprogeny I'm confident the numbers reflect what I see.
 
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