We used the 5 day program last year on a small group of cows, two shots of lut 12 hours apart. Seemed to get more action out of the cows. Around here we don't time breed anything anymore. We kept track of the cows that were time bred, compared to the cows that stood. It turned out to be less than 10% conception on the time breeding. that is a lot of wasted time and $. If you are synching cows and only have to heat check three days a year, take the time and do it right. Just like everything else, you get out what you put in!
Synchronize Estrus for AIing
- Thread starter uluru
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Mueller Show Cattle
Well-known member
What do you mean less than 10% conception in timed AI, 10% differnce from standing heat watch rate? Cause If you are only getting 10% pregnant a time, like 1 cow out of 10, you are doing something really wrong. The last couple of years I did the 7 day timed AI and had between 50 to 60% success rates. I only have 10 cows and were getting 5 to 6 pregnant on the first try. If it was only 10% successful, no one would time AI. The benifits of time AI is I work a full time job besides raising club calfs, I can't be watching these cows and have not bought a electronic heat watch system. With time AI, I can work that around my work schedule, with standing heat 12 hours after first sign of standing heat could fall on my work schedule. If they don't take the AI the first time, I go through it again a 2nd time with the ones that did not take and a week after that I turn them out with the clean up bull. Most years I have 100% sucess with AI 2 times, some other years were 90% with 1 cow being bred by the bull. My clean up bull is my father in laws ranch pure bred angus bull, so I don't keep and feed any bull, my cows just go out to pasture with the bull after my breeding is done.QMC said:
hamburgman
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Did you heat detect at all when you did your timed AI? For me most of the heats end up about right for the 72 hr breed time, but a few come in earlier so I breed them accordingly.
That's what I am saying, 10% is pitiful. We get 80% or better on cows that show a heat, 10% on cows time bred because they didn't show a heat. On your 4 you are out $100, but if I do it the way you are I would be out well over $1000. The nice thing about synchronizing is the ability to make them cycle on the days you are not scheduled to work. I think with a little more effort you could do better than 55%. Maybe get out of bed 20 minutes early if you have a chance to breed one on a day you are scheduled to work? I just cant understand why getting ten cows bred is a challenge if you want to sell club calves?Mueller Show Cattle said:
DRB
Well-known member
QMC said:
Your 10% result/statement is not a fair comparison. Those cows that didn't show heat may never have caught anyway, they could be the ones that don't respond to the treatment for whatever reason. A fair comparison would be to do ALL cows TAI and see what your results would be. I assume somewhat less, as you are always probably better with observed heats, but if you get 80-90% total with your system, I bet you'd get 60-70% ish if you just TAI'd everyone, but certainly not only 10% total bred (unless you are doing something horribly wrong).
Mueller Show Cattle
Well-known member
DRB said:
What do you mean less than 10% conception in timed AI, 10% differnce from standing heat watch rate? Cause If you are only getting 10% pregnant a time, like 1 cow out of 10, you are doing something really wrong. The last couple of years I did the 7 day timed AI and had between 50 to 60% success rates. I only have 10 cows and were getting 5 to 6 pregnant on the first try. If it was only 10% successful, no one would time AI. The benifits of time AI is I work a full time job besides raising club calfs, I can't be watching these cows and have not bought a electronic heat watch system. With time AI, I can work that around my work schedule, with standing heat 12 hours after first sign of standing heat could fall on my work schedule. If they don't take the AI the first time, I go through it again a 2nd time with the ones that did not take and a week after that I turn them out with the clean up bull. Most years I have 100% sucess with AI 2 times, some other years were 90% with 1 cow being bred by the bull. My clean up bull is my father in laws ranch pure bred angus bull, so I don't keep and feed any bull, my cows just go out to pasture with the bull after my breeding is done.
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To: Mueller Show Cattle,
How long of a period of time do you wait after you finish your first timed AI protocol, or how many days do you wait until you, (put in CIDR's), or start the 2nd five day timed AI protocol?
[/quote]
To: Mueller Show Cattle,
How long of a period of time do you wait after you finish your first timed AI protocol, or how many days do you wait until you, (put in CIDR's), or start the 2nd five day timed AI protocol?
aandtcattle
Well-known member
We have been using timed a.i. for 11 years now on over 25,000 head of cows and heifers with great success with the following protocol:
Day 0- 2cc GnRH deep in the muscle with an 1 1/2" 18 gauge needle, rub the injection site after injection to prevent leakage.
Day 7- 5cc Lutalyse again with a 1 1/2" 18 gauge
48 hours following Lute- Inseminate + 2cc GnRH
can also be done in conjunction with an MGA regimen beginning 35 days before breeding date.
Typical conception rates will be in the 50-60% range. The worst we have done was about 45% on a group of thin, anestrous 2 year-olds that bred like crap and I didn't think we would get a single pregnancy. The beauty of this protocol is the fact that by breeding at 48 hours after prostaglandin, there is little to no need for heat detection before the timed a.i. You must understand though, that with the GnRH rather than CIDRs there is a good possibility of some day 6 heats, before the prostaglandin injection. It won't be a lot 1-5%. For us and our clients it is worth it rather than spend $10 on a cidr and also the risk of vaginal infection when using cidrs is a downfall. You just can't put them all in clean when youre putting in 300-500 cidrs/day. We have been as high as 75-80% conception with this protocol and the people who have been using this system have seen a steady increase in conception rates over the years. I wonder if by keeping replacement heifers that were conceived in this system and essentially building your cowherd around females that respond well to these drugs, if we aren't building around cow families that respond extremely well to GnRH?
Day 0- 2cc GnRH deep in the muscle with an 1 1/2" 18 gauge needle, rub the injection site after injection to prevent leakage.
Day 7- 5cc Lutalyse again with a 1 1/2" 18 gauge
48 hours following Lute- Inseminate + 2cc GnRH
can also be done in conjunction with an MGA regimen beginning 35 days before breeding date.
Typical conception rates will be in the 50-60% range. The worst we have done was about 45% on a group of thin, anestrous 2 year-olds that bred like crap and I didn't think we would get a single pregnancy. The beauty of this protocol is the fact that by breeding at 48 hours after prostaglandin, there is little to no need for heat detection before the timed a.i. You must understand though, that with the GnRH rather than CIDRs there is a good possibility of some day 6 heats, before the prostaglandin injection. It won't be a lot 1-5%. For us and our clients it is worth it rather than spend $10 on a cidr and also the risk of vaginal infection when using cidrs is a downfall. You just can't put them all in clean when youre putting in 300-500 cidrs/day. We have been as high as 75-80% conception with this protocol and the people who have been using this system have seen a steady increase in conception rates over the years. I wonder if by keeping replacement heifers that were conceived in this system and essentially building your cowherd around females that respond well to these drugs, if we aren't building around cow families that respond extremely well to GnRH?
Mueller Show Cattle
Well-known member
SEA, I have my vet ultrasound all my cows 30 days after I did my AI. I don't have time to watch the cows all the time and it takes him 15 to 20 min to ultrasound all 10 of my cows. So I just have him do all of them to be on the safe side. The vet come out here and I run them through my chute and I know which ones have not taken and I immidiately start the 5 day cidr AI process over on the ones that did not take. Then 10 to 15 day after I AI the 2nd time, all 10 of the cows go out to pasture with the bull. I can tell if the bull got any of them usually by when they calve out and the bull is pure bread angus.
Thanks! (thumbsup)Mueller Show Cattle said:
Also, These "newer", Beef Cow Synchronization Protocols are shown in the 2011 Bovine Elite Sire Directory on pages 78-80. It shows both the 5 and 7 day CO-Synch + CIDR Fixed-Time AI (TAI). It shows some different protocols for Fixed-Time AI (TAI) for Beef Heifers, but not the 5 or 7 day program.
LN
Well-known member
Last week was pregnancy testing on the ranch and here's how we came out on the 7 day CO-Synch CIDR Time AI protocol.
54% conceived to the Time AI. (I would've liked a little higher but it was our first time).
77% of the repeats conceived to AI. (Did great on that).
9% open (a low for us, last year was 15%)
24 of 25 two year olds rebred (thrilled about that) and the 24 were AI bred.
All in all 83% of the calf crop will be AI sired next fall and be born in the first 21 days of calving season. I'm a Time AI convert, next year I'm going to use the 5-day Co-Synch CIDR.
54% conceived to the Time AI. (I would've liked a little higher but it was our first time).
77% of the repeats conceived to AI. (Did great on that).
9% open (a low for us, last year was 15%)
24 of 25 two year olds rebred (thrilled about that) and the 24 were AI bred.
All in all 83% of the calf crop will be AI sired next fall and be born in the first 21 days of calving season. I'm a Time AI convert, next year I'm going to use the 5-day Co-Synch CIDR.
Doc
Well-known member
LN said:
Congratulations!!! Thats when it makes the extra work worth it.
