Steer Planet - Show Steers and Club Calves Forum

I would be very careful with any animal with Irish Pride, i.e. Deerpark Improver, in it.  My advice would be to watch your matings closely.  Just my opinion.

I am going to have the heifers tested- They are exceptional looking- deep broad females- I realize by pedigree they should be real clubby but thats not what I see here. They are feminine, smooth made and have smaller heads than even my heifers from Lovings.  I really like the roan color they have- almost a purple roan.  If they come back positive as carriers Ill drop there ass off on AHL's door and collect my $$.  Not that I would ever use a carrier bull, but as long as you have breeders selling animals w/o disclosing their status, you never know what you're gonna get.  They really have a diverse pedigree, the Improver and Leader lines, some Maine breeding, and a good back of Canadian breeding if you go back far enough.  I even remember seeing Kenmar and Helianthus breeding far back.

Quote from: -XBAR- on April 17, 2012, 11:43:20 AM

I am going to have the heifers tested- They are exceptional looking- deep broad females- I realize by pedigree they should be real clubby but thats not what I see here. They are feminine, smooth made and have smaller heads than even my heifers from Lovings.  I really like the roan color they have- almost a purple roan.  If they come back positive as carriers Ill drop there ass off on AHL's door and collect my $$.  Not that I would ever use a carrier bull, but as long as you have breeders selling animals w/o disclosing their status, you never know what you're gonna get.  They really have a diverse pedigree, the Improver and Leader lines, some Maine breeding, and a good back of Canadian breeding if you go back far enough.  I even remember seeing Kenmar and Helianthus breeding far back.

Did they sell them as free of any genetic defects? If not you probably wont get any money back from them if they are carriers, if by pedigree there is a chance that they are carriers, and the heifers have not been tested, then you took on the risk when you decided to buy them.  Thats the way most sales work unless there is some type of guarantee.  We considered goin to this sale so I looked over the catalog fairly close and I didnt see any type of guarantee like that on any lots.  Not trying to be jerk, just letting you know, these heifers are most likely yours now. 

Quote from: oakview on April 17, 2012, 02:54:35 PM

I am certainly not in any way advocating returning the heifers to their previous owner.  I would just suggest that, even if the heifers are TH free, which they very well may be, I would still be careful with mating decisions because of the foot/ankle defect that is lurking about.  As far as I know, there is no test for this and work continues.  However, the defective calves I am personally aware of all have Improver on both sides of the pedigree.  I don't know if Improver is the source or not and will not know until something is proven.  However, after living through the TH thing 10 years ago, I am just a little gun shy and am personally avoiding double Improver, TH free or not.  There are plenty of good bulls out there that do not have Improver in them that could work on these heifers with great results.

Improver is over 5 generations back on these heifers.  I guess my question is, if Improver is indeed the culprit, then how/why would the defect go 5 generations without being expressed? Or is that what happens? If the heifers do type negative for both th and pha, doesn't that mean that their line is "clean" from here on out?

Quote from: twistedhshowstock on April 17, 2012, 02:53:16 PM

Quote from: -XBAR- on April 17, 2012, 11:43:20 AM

I am going to have the heifers tested- They are exceptional looking- deep broad females- I realize by pedigree they should be real clubby but thats not what I see here. They are feminine, smooth made and have smaller heads than even my heifers from Lovings.  I really like the roan color they have- almost a purple roan.  If they come back positive as carriers Ill drop there ass off on AHL's door and collect my $$.  Not that I would ever use a carrier bull, but as long as you have breeders selling animals w/o disclosing their status, you never know what you're gonna get.  They really have a diverse pedigree, the Improver and Leader lines, some Maine breeding, and a good back of Canadian breeding if you go back far enough.  I even remember seeing Kenmar and Helianthus breeding far back.

Did they sell them as free of any genetic defects? If not you probably wont get any money back from them if they are carriers, if by pedigree there is a chance that they are carriers, and the heifers have not been tested, then you took on the risk when you decided to buy them.  Thats the way most sales work unless there is some type of guarantee.  We considered goin to this sale so I looked over the catalog fairly close and I didnt see any type of guarantee like that on any lots.  Not trying to be jerk, just letting you know, these heifers are most likely yours now. 

Lets just say I'm fairly persuasive.


Cool...good luck with that...personally if you bought the heifers from me knowing that there was possibility of them carrying a defect.  Then you had them tested and they did in fact carry it, and you tried to get your money back I most likely wouldnt do it, unless the heifers were just something I really wanted back in my herd.  Otherwise I view it as you assumed the risk by buying them knowing that there was  potential, so now it is in your hands.