Texas steer shows ----wonder how they work or do they.

Had a buyer for southern calves stop in , picked out some crossbred's an wanted one of the registered Angus bull calves to steer .Really thought he was good, calf does kinda stand out. Later talked to one of his buddies down south an decided he was to good , wouldn't pass as a Angus an he is legit as the day is long .As a Angus breeder something is wrong somewhere.

Last Spring I told a buyer he was crazy for thinking a Juneau X Simmental cross steer out of a first calf heifer would go Angus.  He’s back this year looking at our first calf heifers again trying to find another one because he won the British class at his county show.  The full brother to the calf he bought last year won’t work because it’s too good.  That pretty much sums up the Angus breed here.

When discussing Angus steers in Texas, quality is secondary.  The first thing anybody talks about when looking at Angus steers is "will he classify".  Too much muscle, style, or bone will get you kicked out even if your calf is as purebred as they come.  At the clinic where they put the new “guidelines” together the Red Angus rep put up a picture of Javelin and said straight up that there's no way he would classify to show in the Red Angus class in Texas because he's too good.

We don't require (or quite frankly care about) papers in the majors here; it's all done on a classifying system.  Steers are evaluated by a three person panel that votes yes/no on each calf brought through as to whether that calf is what they say it is.  I had the opportunity to be the guy that counted the votes in San Antonio for the British steers one year and it was interesting to say the least.

For the sake of the integrity of breed registries, it's a good thing we don't use papers.  Pistol Pete ruined blood testing in the 90s by the way of his calves blood typing Angus.

To cut to the chase, Angus is a bit of a con mans game of finding the calf that is good enough to compete but not good enough to get kicked to the AOB class.  One of the most futile (and dumb) things to do is try to show a steer that's just a bit too good for the Angus class.

Getting worked up over it is about as good a way to waste time as getting upset over slick shows.

Mr Schroeder
What if the angus has papers? Who classify's steers? I think  it is intersting that they can show a Hereford because it looks like one but can really be 1/16th hereford. Why is this? Has it always been that way.

I feel the AAA needs to step in and help come up with a solution. Maybe show steer prospects need to be papered like bulls and females.

Telos said:

I feel the AAA needs to step in and help come up with a solution. Maybe show steer prospects need to be papered like bulls and females.

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This is all just amazing and as someone who has always lived in the northern tier, I had no idea!  Besides papers, I wonder if they were also dna'd if that would help at all. I know that if someone wanted to cheat they still could, but isn't it amazing that they get sifted out for being "too good"!!

What if the angus has papers?

If that were the case, the breeder wasted money on registration fees.  Papers are worthless during the steer shows in Texas, it doesn’t matter which breed.  Frankly, that’s for the best for the breed associations. 

Who classifies steers?

When I counted the votes at San Antonio in 99 or so, it was one FFA rep, one 4-H rep, and one breed association rep.

I think  it is interesting that they can show a Hereford because it looks like one but can really be 1/16th hereford. Why is this? Has it always been that way.

It’s because it’s a visual classification process and as far as the steer shows are concerned, if it looks like a Hereford it’s a Hereford.  It’s been this way as far as I can remember.  I know I sat and watched the process at my county show back in 1990 or so.

I feel the AAA needs to step in and help come up with a solution.

I think that would be about as productive as getting worked up over slick shows.

I tell you what though, there’s nothing Texans love more than to be told by a Yankee how to fix something that the Yankee has not part in.

Besides papers, I wonder if they were also dna'd if that would help at all.

They did at one time but it became a waste of time and effort after bulls like Pistol Pete sired calves that would blood type Angus.  I know some big Red Angus guys in the state that would like blood typing back for that breed but they don’t mess with the steer shows.

I guess I what I don't understand is why they go to the trouble of classifying at all??  Everything down there is a crossbred, why not just show them by hip height and save yourselves a whole bunch of time?

Which makes me think you aren't around too many cattle with humps.

15+ breeds is deeply rooted in the entire idea of steer shows in Texas.  Well, except Fort Worth which still allows a completely useless, non-edible substance to have a huge impact on the show.

BTW, classifying it done on the way into the ring now in order to save time.  We have weight divisions but at shows like San Antonio, you don't weigh your calf in.  You just report a weight and they weigh back the placing calves.

Not a new discussion here at all.  Bottom line is if someone wants to bad enough, they can paper anything as an Angus (or any other breed, for that matter) - in a steer show where 10th place steers can bring $8 a pound, there'll be plenty of those someones...  DNA testing that many steers would be very costly and time consuming - they're steers, the Angus Association (national or state) isn't going to care enough to foot the bill, and the shows aren't going to, either.  Besides, this way there is one simple uniform requirement for all the steers - visual classification, period.  I do agree that it seems strange that one can be "too good",  but that's really no worse than not allowing Herefords with eye pigment or solid black Simmentals, either.

If this is so bad, what do other states do?  Does anything with a set of registration papers get to show?  Do you DNA test?  If so when, and who foots the bill?  And how many steers are there in the Angus divisions of your state shows?


We had a recent discussion down in the classifieds about classifying Angus steers in OK (here they just have to be out of a registered Angus cow, can be sired by anything - yes, that means 1/2 bloods, and it also means we have a nice sized, competitive Angus steer show instead of the handful we got when they had to be registered).

Not saying it's bad, just don't understand it, a 1/2 blood Angus isn't an Angus it's a crossbred.

I think you're trying to apply breed association rules to non-breed association organizations.

What's a 1/50 blood Chianina?

Maybe it's easier to look at our (Oklahoma's) classifying system this way -  Nobody's trying to pretend these are pb Angus steers, but steers that meet the requirements set forth by the OAA for the division that they sponsor.  It used to be called CAB, eventually it evolved back to just being called Angus.

Jill, what are the requirements for a steer to show in the Angus division in Kansas?  If they are supposed to be pb's, do you believe that all of them are? Not trying to argue, just curious.

here in IL all angus steers have to be papered and some show by age, not weight.


Most people around here assume that cattle with papers are truly what they are.  But, breed champions don't pay here also.

Jill said:

I guess I what I don't understand is why they go to the trouble of classifying at all??  Everything down there is a crossbred, why not just show them by hip height and save yourselves a whole bunch of time?

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just like L-Ville. 

DLD said:

Maybe it's easier to look at our (Oklahoma's) classifying system this way -  Nobody's trying to pretend these are pb Angus steers, but steers that meet the requirements set forth by the OAA for the division that they sponsor.  It used to be called CAB, eventually it evolved back to just being called Angus.

Jill, what are the requirements for a steer to show in the Angus division in Kansas?  If they are supposed to be pb's, do you believe that all of them are? Not trying to argue, just curious.

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Yes, they have to be papered purebred Angus, and looking at the lineup's, I would say they all pretty much fit into the hatchet butted, no bone, no hair Angus qualification.  It doesn't really matter what I think, that's what the paper states and I can guarantee (pretty much) we have never had one show out of Heat Wave and an Angus cow, it would stand out like a sore thumb.

I just don't see how they get by with the classification based on 3 people's opinions.  That's an open door for politics if you ask me...

I know my opinion won't change how things are done in Texas, but I thing if anyone wants to show in a "breed" division in Texas Majors, they need to be DNA verified at validation in June.  At that time, if an exhibitor wants to show a steer in a specific breed, they collect a DNA sample along with a $50 genetic testing fee for the lab to verify breed, and maintain a DNA sample of the calf.  The bill should be flipped by the exhibitor to verify the breed, but this is significantly cheaper than spending hundreds of dollars and a week off work to get sifted at Ft. Worth because of your calf's looks, politics, etc.  Once certified as an Angus, Limi, Hereford, etc, the exhibitor would be eligible for all breed divisions at the Majors.  These calves would still be susceptible to random dna checks to make sure they are the animal that was originally validated and entered into the show.  If it is so lucrative to show in a breed, then it should be worth a fee to DNA verify the animals.  The process may not completely eliminate the crossbreeds, or cheats, it sure would eliminate the politics and give true great purebred animals to show in their respective breeds.

Maybe the breed associations know that most of their registered cattle are not purebreds any way so maybe these guys picking them come closer to the breed type an looks than what they are raising in the breed assciations.  Just thinking

Texas use to run blood test on steers at major shows and they had to test a certain percentage, however all that stopped sometime before 1990 and y i dont know. And yes having three visual classifiers does get political, but as we all know if someone wants to do anything bad enough whether its wrong or rt they will find a way to do it. So if it wouldnt be the classifiers it would be something else.

And yes the angus deal has always amazed me. i have seen many reg angus claves walk in and get kicked to AOB and then the is no more angus than i am and gets rt in with no problems. Here in texas half of the game is classifying. idk y but thats the way it is and i dont know if changing it up would really be much of a benefit anyway.

JSchroeder said:

What if the angus has papers?

If that were the case, the breeder wasted money on registration fees.  Papers are worthless during the steer shows in Texas, it doesn’t matter which breed.  Frankly, that’s for the best for the breed associations. 

Who classifies steers?

When I counted the votes at San Antonio in 99 or so, it was one FFA rep, one 4-H rep, and one breed association rep.

I think  it is interesting that they can show a Hereford because it looks like one but can really be 1/16th hereford. Why is this? Has it always been that way.

It’s because it’s a visual classification process and as far as the steer shows are concerned, if it looks like a Hereford it’s a Hereford.  It’s been this way as far as I can remember.  I know I sat and watched the process at my county show back in 1990 or so.

I feel the AAA needs to step in and help come up with a solution.

I think that would be about as productive as getting worked up over slick shows.

I tell you what though, there’s nothing Texans love more than to be told by a Yankee how to fix something that the Yankee has not part in.

Besides papers, I wonder if they were also dna'd if that would help at all.

They did at one time but it became a waste of time and effort after bulls like Pistol Pete sired calves that would blood type Angus.  I know some big Red Angus guys in the state that would like blood typing back for that breed but they don’t mess with the steer shows.

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I am just tryiing to understand this is interesting. In our area we show with papers. Our state show you have to nose print and it has to be turned in January. you are then rechecked at the state show in August to match calves. They also look for tattoo's and want to see papers on breed steers. Crossbreds show by hip height but breed steers show by age. If it ain't broke and works for you all then more power to you. Not trying to fix anything here.
Thank you for taking time to explain.

OH Breeder said:

If it ain't broke and works for you all then more power to you. Not trying to fix anything here.

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Best statement in the whole thread.

I'll shut up now.