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Offline Jill

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Re: TH and phenotype
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2008, 04:36:38 PM »
Ok, I don't know that I agree with you, just felt all of the show heifers and I have 1 with a slick head.  I have 1 totally free with a big knot and 1 PHA with a big knot, but she is tested th free, maybe I am feeling something wrong, but I think I get what you' re talking about, it's like a big goose egg, never noticed it before.

Offline aj

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Re: TH and phenotype
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2008, 07:44:05 AM »
Maybe they could develop like a quick test they use for nitrates in feed. They could rub like a litmus paper on the calfs nose and it would turn purple  or something.I'd like to see more pictures too. Hope something is figured out. A guy could save jugs of money. ;D
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Offline justintime

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Re: TH and phenotype
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2008, 08:09:23 AM »
Now that would be nice!  In my opinion, most carriers have some similar traits such as the ridge on their head, but I have also seen carriers that do not have this. Also carriers usually have more hair than non carriers, but occasionally some don't. When the test for TH  was developed, I already had an idea that I had used a carrier bull or two in the past. One of my current herd bulls at the time, was a double bred Improver, but I thought he was clean as he was smooth headed, had fairly short hair, and had been used on numerous females that carried the bloodlines of another bull who I felt was a carrier.
I was surprised when I got my TH test results and found out that this bull was a carrier. He certainly didn't fit the profile I thought carriers had. I only have a few daughters left in my herd from this bull and there are only two carriers in the group. Both are now excellent recips and they will remain recips.
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Offline garybob

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Re: TH and phenotype
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2008, 07:28:18 PM »
I think that all of this talk about the "physical traits" of carriers is off the wall. This thinking reminds me of the false beliefs of some breeders that erroneously believe that Show Steers(and their Sisters, who, in turn, pass this crap onto following generations of offspring) MUST be carriers, in order to be competetive.Telling customers that there is a direct  link between phenotype and defect status, IMVHO, is only a way for the owners of Dirty Bulls to get people to buy their Semen & Breeding Stock.

By now, with all of this testing that has already been done, there should be "clean offspring a-plenty" of original "genetically and economically valuable"carrier animals. The Test Dr Beevers invented IMHO, was INTENDED to ELIMINATE the gene and its' negative effects (wasted investment money, heart-broken kids, and the continued, unjustified, lack of confidence from the commercial industry in a very valuable breed) from a breeding population. All We've done, thus far, is MAKE MORE CARRIERS.

Does this make sense?

GB

« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 07:44:27 PM by garybob »

Offline aj

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Re: TH and phenotype
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2008, 08:07:02 PM »
Does it make sense to have breast enlargements? Does it make sense to have glamour photos taken of yourself? Does it make sense to take steroids. The show world is a beauty contest. My goal is to have a defect free herd. I have people showing up and skimming the top off the heifer calves before I can get them tested. They are always th carriers. I don't have a lot of it. I am putting 25 heifer calves back into my herd and all but 2 are th free. I had like 6 sell before I could get them tested and they all came up th positive latter on. There is a look to them. The buyers knew about the possibilities. I know a guy who tested every female in his herd(shorthorn...we'll call him marty) He hauled every th carrier to the salebarn. This takes guts and I admire that. It is a difficult situation.If it ever bleeds over into the commercial industry it is goig to be a nightmare.
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Offline SRU

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Re: TH and phenotype
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2008, 08:30:24 PM »
Does it make sense to have breast enlargements? Does it make sense to have glamour photos taken of yourself? Does it make sense to take steroids. The show world is a beauty contest. My goal is to have a defect free herd. I have people showing up and skimming the top off the heifer calves before I can get them tested. They are always th carriers. I don't have a lot of it. I am putting 25 heifer calves back into my herd and all but 2 are th free. I had like 6 sell before I could get them tested and they all came up th positive latter on. There is a look to them. The buyers knew about the possibilities. I know a guy who tested every female in his herd(shorthorn...we'll call him marty) He hauled every th carrier to the salebarn. This takes guts and I admire that. It is a difficult situation.If it ever bleeds over into the commercial industry it is goig to be a nightmare.

where did those thc cows go from the salebarn?
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Offline aj

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Re: TH and phenotype
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2008, 07:49:51 AM »
Excellent point SRU. I don't know if they were harvested or not. Thats the thing about the defects is they are out there forever unless you terminate the line. There are angus and herford cattle that still carry the dwarfism mutation from the 1950's or whenever. It would be interesting in putting a list together of the most influential sires as far as spreading defects. St. Louis Lad...Doublestuff....Deerpark Improver.... on and on. Then you have a bull like Warhorse who is a carrier of monkey mouth,pha, and th. He is the king there. You have mule foot, rat tail, and all kind of stuff out there. I don't consider the polled gene, or red gene to be a defect but you had Angus bulls like the old Continental or whoever dispersing the red gene in the angus.It's fascinating.
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