th phenotypes

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aj

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On shorthorns its said the th carriers have a weird hair swirl on head....lotta hair.....straighter set to hind leg. Is this true of the black th carriers? Herford marked calves? Simmental calves and all of them? could you look at a pen of 10 calves(withh 5 carriers and 5 clean) and pick out carriers?
 

jbzdad

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have a friend who flushes a good maine cross cow to ring of fire  (a heat wave son).. you can pick the carriers at birth.. they are hairier and have "the look"
 

shorthornmn

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Most TH carriers are big boned and hairy. Some even have a very pointed front on their forehead. Some believe that there are varities of "strength" of the TH gene though. You can't always tell which is a carrier. We have had a few that we thought were for sure carriers and they were double clean for both TH and PHA and we have a few that we thought we clean that were carriers. Your best and safest bet is to just pull hair and get them tested for the gene. Especially if your worried about breeding heifers and cows.
 

aj

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I got to thinking that it would be cool to walk around the junior breed shows and look for signs of th carriers......kind of a CSI deal.    Walk around say the Limi deal and look at foreheads on cattle. The Herford show is in Nebraska this year. I would be tempted to run there just for the fun of it.
 
C

cornish

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I could run up the road about an hour and a half--- and get a good look for you AJ... Wait, I've already been there once or twice...
 

aj

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Would the 50k chip deal(like the Red Angus and Simmental) are using.....pick up on th carriers?
 

OH Breeder

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aj said:
Would the 50k chip deal(like the Red Angus and Simmental) are using.....pick up on th carriers?


They identified the markers for Osteoporosis in Red Angus using the 50K chip I don't see why they could pick up on TH. HD 50K platform  contains 50,000 SNP markers on a single "chip".

Genex Says

A SNP or single nucleotide polymorphism, is a place on a chromosome "marked" by a difference in the genetic code. This "marker" can then be associated with specific genes located near it. Genes with significant influence on individual traits are identified by markers and used to predict an animal's breeding values. With 50,000 markers, we can cover enough genes to get a good estimate of that animal's genetic merit.

some of the more fluent folks in this technology should be able to answer? ???
 

oakview

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TH carriers are heavier boned, thick, have straight back legs and lots of hair?  A cow that I purchased before TH testing was available was later tested and was TH positive.  She would be criticized for being light boned, perhaps too narrow, having somewhat crooked back legs, and didn't have much hair.  (she was an excellent producer for 10 years)  I hate to read or hear comments that they have to be TH carriers to be competitive.  When was the last time a TH carrier won the National Shorthorn show?  There have been 4 or 5, maybe more, national champions that were Trump X Rose 004.  Not a carrier in the bunch.  Bloodstone?  Clean.  Solution?  Clean.  Sonny?  Clean.  Anybody showing a TH positive Shorthorn bull to the National Championship lately?  Not that I know of.  I saw Improver on display in Denver.  Has it been almost 40 years?  Look at the photos of him.  He was straight on his back legs, bigger hipped than most of the time, and some of us didn't like him because we thought he might be too small.  He became popular because of those traits and the TH, in my opinion, was a tag along of his total genetics.  Just because an animal is a TH carrier doesn't mean they are good.  Check the pedigrees of the Shorthorn champions of recent years.  Many of them have Improver in their pedigree, but do not carry the TH gene.  Obviously, the traits those breeders wanted were passed on without TH.  If I see research someday that proves moderate framed, heavy muscled, heavy boned, hairy, big hipped cattle have to carry the TH gene, then I may reluctantly admit that to win a show you need TH.
 

aj

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I think its just for steer shows that they have to th carriers to have the look. I think Shorthorns use big cattle as winners so that does cut the carriers popularity out. I realize that the jocks have been using Maines of Herfords to get Herford colored calves for years. And that doesn't bother me so much. But you throw the genetic defect th in the mix and you have one heck of a mess.
 
C

cornish

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oakview said:
TH carriers are heavier boned, thick, have straight back legs and lots of hair?  A cow that I purchased before TH testing was available was later tested and was TH positive.  She would be criticized for being light boned, perhaps too narrow, having somewhat crooked back legs, and didn't have much hair.  (she was an excellent producer for 10 years)  I hate to read or hear comments that they have to be TH carriers to be competitive.  When was the last time a TH carrier won the National Shorthorn show?  There have been 4 or 5, maybe more, national champions that were Trump X Rose 004.  Not a carrier in the bunch.  Bloodstone?  Clean.  Solution?  Clean.  Sonny?  Clean.  Anybody showing a TH positive Shorthorn bull to the National Championship lately?  Not that I know of.  I saw Improver on display in Denver.  Has it been almost 40 years?  Look at the photos of him.  He was straight on his back legs, bigger hipped than most of the time, and some of us didn't like him because we thought he might be too small.  He became popular because of those traits and the TH, in my opinion, was a tag along of his total genetics.  Just because an animal is a TH carrier doesn't mean they are good.  Check the pedigrees of the Shorthorn champions of recent years.  Many of them have Improver in their pedigree, but do not carry the TH gene.  Obviously, the traits those breeders wanted were passed on without TH.  If I see research someday that proves moderate framed, heavy muscled, heavy boned, hairy, big hipped cattle have to carry the TH gene, then I may reluctantly admit that to win a show you need TH.
milestone sable... and her decendants.???  How 'bout further back? Mattis???
 

aj

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I would think the Herford assc. would the hammer down on the junior shows and th carriers. It might nip the deal in the bud and save alot of testing latter on. People will start forging papers and lieing about parentage to escape detection than you will have all these false paper trails to follow. Battle of the bull runts.......all over again. I thought frostie said the th deal ain't no thang. ;D
 

KSUwildcat2009

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The SNP chips being able to pick up certain defects  is dependent on the type of mutation.  A single nucleotide change can be seen because that is the nature of the chips, however other types of mutations like insertions and deletions would require far more work than its probably worth. 

There's no need to rely on linkage of the mutation to other markers when we know the causative mutation. 

At least this is my understanding of it.
 

aj

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I wonder what th is? Is it a nucleotide change thing a ma jiggy or a insertion or deletion?
 

aj

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If limi,herfords,Red Angus or whoever.........was messing around with warhorse or whatever its had what 10 years or so to float out into cow herds?
 

obie105

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Herefords are probably the best purebred breed left. I know for a fact many state shows are now pulling hair to make sure that they are. I also know that all registered bulls to register calves out of them have to dna tested now starting I believe with bulls born this year. Personally I think that carrier cattle in any breed should not be allowed to be registered and it would phase itself out in a few years. JMO
 
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