TH Proliferation

I thought these charts that were posted on Lautner Farms' blog were interesting.  Only 6 of the 41 new bulls in 2011 and 2012 were TH Free.  I guess this begs the question.  Do they think that these TH carrier cattle are the best of all the cattle out there, or do they only want to carry THC bulls because the marketplace thinks bulls must have TH to be a good sire?

So I guess the question is, are Lautners pushing TH into the marketplace, or is the marketplace determining the type of bulls Lautners offer?

Also one other observation is that PHA was not nearly as prevalent in the last 2 years of new sires.  Is this because they do not see the PHA defect as adding as much value, or does the marketplace see PHA as a lot worse defect because it can, and will not only result in a dead calf, but a dead cow also?

AJ?

Or.......perhaps they were the calves that they thought they could sell semen on and would create opportunity for them and their customers. Just a thought.

I was thinking about this very thing a few days ago. I was thinking that we were starting to see a few defect free clubby bulls be heavily promoted, and I thought it was a good thing. Really the one I am thinking about is I-80 and there are a few more but I think that is the most popular one. It seems like more than in the past few years, but I could be wrong. However, I see what you mean in relation to the total number of bulls some of the bigger names promote.

I have had more than one person tell me that if you want to be competitive in the clubby world that they have to be a THC. I dont necessarily believe that but I know that the odds are better for sure just because of the numbers.

I guess my hope is we are now getting enough good cattle out there that we can start to select away from the defects. I guess we will see

DakotaCow said:

Or.......perhaps they were the calves that they thought they could sell semen on and would create opportunity for them and their customers. Just a thought.

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I think that this is exactly how it got started, but now it seems like everyone has been convinced that you must use their carrier bulls to win.  And this concept is based on a bunch of champion steers that have not been tested for TH and PHA, and even better, haven't even been DNA parent verified that they are out of what they say they are.  I guess perception is the truth if spun the right way and it comes out of the right mouth.

That being said, I do not deny the fact that a high percentage of the champions at the Majors and State Fairs are carriers.  Just not sure that I would go as far to say that if you don't have it, you won't win.

There is NO doubt about this fact, the THC bulls are the clubbie promoters bread & butter. They will carry a large percentage of carrier bulls in their line ups until those type of cattle quit winning in the ring. I don't think that it will happen. Their are too many younger judges that have grown up in the error of the THC cross winners. We are definitely seeing breeders back away from using these bulls to make females which is driving the Angus, Red Angus, Simmi, & Char cross cattle to make the cows out of.

It is amazing that they are only after the terminal steer segment of the business and give up the breeding heifer side without trying too hard or we would have more chopper/I80/Mercedes Benz type bulls offered...  I wouldn't expect even numbers, but why only one choice of Heat Wave genetics?  Few people have ever sang his praises as a female producer, and with the cow numbers so low I would think an opportunity would exist...

Then again they are probably filling the orders of the guys/gals calling in.....


Its that nasty Capitalism thing again, I thought it had disappeared.

Mark

Actually there is at least one misprint on there Ali`s Solution is a Pha carrier. I was going to try him till I saw in some catalogs he was listed as clean and others he was listed as a carrier. I contacted Lautners to be sure and they said it was a misprint. Sometimes it may be best to contact the owner of the bull just to make sure to avoid a train wreck.Top Sires had him listed correctly.

Seems like TH is being spread faster by the show cattle biz, than the Shorthorn breed could. However, it chaps my rear when someone at a show says TH "came from Shorthorns", which it did, but, then they turn around and use a dirty crossbred bull to make a show calf.

GB

One and Only is another free bull that I believe is getting his share of attention and his females look great right now, I will let you know in a couple of months what kind of mothers they might make. I agree with what most have said above though that the THC cattle are still more popular and therefore are promoted more heavily. I believe that until we have a free sire that consistently produces calves that consistently beat THC calves we will continue to see the THC bulls be promoted.

One name- Heatwave, tell me, how many bulls have you produced that has the kind of success, he has?

ZNT said:

I thought these charts that were posted on Lautner Farms' blog were interesting.  Only 6 of the 41 new bulls in 2011 and 2012 were TH Free.  I guess this begs the question.  Do they think that these TH carrier cattle are the best of all the cattle out there, or do they only want to carry THC bulls because the marketplace thinks bulls must have TH to be a good sire?

So I guess the question is, are Lautners pushing TH into the marketplace, or is the marketplace determining the type of bulls Lautners offer?

Also one other observation is that PHA was not nearly as prevalent in the last 2 years of new sires.  Is this because they do not see the PHA defect as adding as much value, or does the marketplace see PHA as a lot worse defect because it can, and will not only result in a dead calf, but a dead cow also?

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Fiscal cliff?

Lautner is obviously looking for a non thc bull.

You can bet he will be loud and proud when he finds a replacement.

Hopefully it won't be one with another defect.

giggty said:

One name- Heatwave, tell me, how many bulls have you produced that has the kind of success, he has?

ZNT said:

I thought these charts that were posted on Lautner Farms' blog were interesting.  Only 6 of the 41 new bulls in 2011 and 2012 were TH Free.  I guess this begs the question.  Do they think that these TH carrier cattle are the best of all the cattle out there, or do they only want to carry THC bulls because the marketplace thinks bulls must have TH to be a good sire?

So I guess the question is, are Lautners pushing TH into the marketplace, or is the marketplace determining the type of bulls Lautners offer?

Also one other observation is that PHA was not nearly as prevalent in the last 2 years of new sires.  Is this because they do not see the PHA defect as adding as much value, or does the marketplace see PHA as a lot worse defect because it can, and will not only result in a dead calf, but a dead cow also?

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every person on this board has produced a calf that was destined to be a 1200 county fair steer, so I suppose maybe your comments can go towards the guy who raised Heatwave too. 

90% of the bulls that Lautners promote are bought as calves before they are tested.  I think the high number goes to show that the better calves are generally carriers.  That being said there needs to be a clean bull come along out of dirty genetics to breed those carrier females to and if you have one you will probably have a gold mine.  One and Only is probably the best option out there right now.

rlrlks said:

90% of the bulls that Lautners promote are bought as calves before they are tested.  I think the high number goes to show that the better calves are generally carriers.  That being said there needs to be a clean bull come along out of dirty genetics to breed those carrier females to and if you have one you will probably have a gold mine.  One and Only is probably the best option out there right now.

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You mean clean bulls that are safe on heifers that can produce calves like this?

or calves like this?

this is not from a 1st calf heifer, but is from a 2nd calf smaller heifer... but he'll be our new heifer bull, besides the other two that sired the calves born above.

In general most of the "Calving Ease" clubby sires are clean I'm talking about a Heatwave, Monopoly, Walks Alone son that will produce high dollar steers out of carrier females.  Nice heifer though.

Hey ZNT,  that's a really nice heifer you have there, what's her bame? Sale barn?

giggty said:

Hey ZNT,  that's a really nice heifer you have there, what's her bame? Sale barn?

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Not sure what a "bame" is?  Not sure if you were trying to be insulting and meant to write "name".  I guess if that was your intent, really good use of your 6 total posts on steerplanet.