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Offline Woody

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2012, 05:15:07 PM »
By no means do I think that every old bull will work. Papillon, Deffinatly not! What about 600U, I think he is an 86 model. Bold future that was mentioned earlier would have his place in today's crossbreeding. What about Highwayman, a doubletime son?  I would guess that most non diluters could work.
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Offline aandtcattle

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2012, 07:56:37 PM »
600U?? YES!  All the aforementioned bulls?? NO!  I dont want to see the industry go down that road again.  Those females were a trainwreck in this part of the country.
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Offline Woody

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2012, 08:13:24 PM »
I forgot the best one!  What would Black Max half bloods do for improving size, yet keeping eye appeal?  When I started showing in the early 90s they were some dang good cattle, I could never afford them then. Does anybody have a picture of that bull?
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Offline aj

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2012, 08:14:25 PM »
I can't help think Galant would work....even today. I spose he was horned but I can't remember.
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Offline leanbeef

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2012, 10:02:32 PM »
I went back with Bold Future on Angus cows because he shows up in the pedigrees of so many good ones and was a real cow maker. I like what I have so far...three real nice black baldy females, and I plan to use him again this fall. He IS non diluter, but obviously red and heterozygous polled. So I'm making heterozygous black females with a 50% chance of being homozygous polled. Highwayman could make some good ones, but I don't think they'd be as consistently problem free as the Bold Futures. Some of those cattle had a LOTTA set to that hind leg!

As far as 600U, I think we're a few generations past him into the blacks, and if we're doing this thing right as breeders, we should have better bulls to choose from. Going back and picking up a bull like Bold Future is incorporating a bull that was ahead of his time in some ways & had a lot to offer, and using those genetics in the context of today's black Simmental cattle. An old bull like Galant could work, but I don't think he'd be a non diluter. And yes...he was horned...fullblood import. They were ALL horned back then.

Offline Lucky_P

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2012, 06:35:42 AM »
leanbeef,
Looking back at photos of Pollfleck, I'm not certain he was a diluter either - but several of the other Simmental bulls I used back in the day - Alpine Polled Proto, DS Polltime, Gen III, etc. were.  
Had a bunch of Holstein heifers bred to Pollfleck, but sold 'em as springers, when we made a career change and move.  Pollfleck daughter that stayed were out of Alpine Polled Proto daughters - and all were diluted, probably from APP.  Good cows, though - one of 'em was 18, when I sold her, as a bred cow, 'cause she was way out of synch with the rest of the herd; still have some regrets about sending her on.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 11:10:56 AM by Lucky_P »

Offline husker1

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2012, 08:00:07 AM »
One of my favorites for making females back in the day was Pineview Jazz.  We had some good ones, and nearly every one had that trademark big, bold spot on one cheek.

One of the top 5 females on the place, ever, was BCC Miss Signal 102P.  She was a little (for the time, anyway) 6 frame cow, very soft made and super easy fleshing, but still long bodied.  Perfect uddered, and milked like a 'stein.  She busted out a good calf every year.  Even though she had more white on her than red, I'd still take 20 just like her....A good Signal daughter.  Now the crazy thing...I remember purchasing her for $525 as a bred 2nd calver.

 

Offline leanbeef

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2012, 08:03:18 AM »
Ol' Proto was another real good one, and he was definitely a dilution carrier. The worst thing about him was those cows could have a little attitude. They weren't mean, but I don't like cows that try to be smarter than I am! The few Proto daughters I ever knew were kinda like that.

Black Max was around a little early for us...that was before we were breeding many blacks. He could stamp em with a look, but if memory serves, his milk numbers were pretty bad... I don't remember that for certain, and I never owned one, but I think I remember that about him. I did use a litlle Black Maxmizer who was a baldy son of Black Max. Those were pretty nice calves.

Offline HAB

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2012, 09:38:43 AM »
We used a polled Parsian son on our Galloway cows in the late 1980's.  They were some of the best black blazed faced females I have ever seen.  Deep bodied, easy fleshing, and well muscled.  Frame 6-7 most of them.
Galloways- The breed to produce the hardier crossbred cow.

Offline husker1

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2012, 10:32:01 AM »
My only memory about Black Max....

A former prominent Simmental breeder, who was a professional bull rider in his younger days, always said he wanted to find a pasture full of Black Max daughters and breed them Brahman to make some rodeo bulls...he said that the Black Max sired cows were the meanest around.


Offline yukon pete

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2012, 01:04:38 PM »
We used Galant back in the 70's and had really good luck. Had 3 steers out of him and our shorthorn cows that were all class winners at our state fair. I tried to find an old picture of him recently and have failed miserably. I know we got the semen from New Breeds Industries out of Manhattan, KS. I've got a really good idea of what he looked like, but I'd really like to see a picture of the old boy.  If any of you have one, could you please post it here?   

Offline leanbeef

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2012, 01:48:56 PM »
I have a bank of old Simmental Shield magazines at my Dad's...That was the precurser to today's Register. I'll have to look for those & see what pictures I can find. I studied those magazines when I was a kid like I was gonna have to pass a test on that stuff! I think Galant was prob one of the best sires we had back then along with Signal & Abricot. It does kinda make me wonder what calves out of those bulls might look like in the context of present day beef industry standards.

Offline vcsf

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2012, 07:13:26 PM »
I think I would have to side with leanbeef that of the bulls mentioned about the only ones I could see going back and using today would be Bold Future and maybe DS Pollfleck.  I actually did use a bit of Bold Future a few years ago and know where there are some DS Pollfleck embryos out of a black cow that the owner has suggested I should implant and I have considered doing so.

I agree Black Max definitely sired the look in the early to mid nineties.  Some of these cattle probably could have a place today except the biggest complaint I heard about the bull was that it could be a challenge to get some of them out of the cow and the breed definitely does not need to go back to that.  Regardless, my understanding is the semen supply was virtually exhausted while he was still popular.

Highwayman could throw a fair bit of white and I think some of them probably got plenty big without enough body to them in proportion to the height and there were some other issues.  600U did a good job at the time and his descendants are still very prominent in the breed and I believe they have a far bigger role to play today than 600U himself.

I think where a lot of the original bulls like Signal and Abricot really shown with regards to the commercial industry was in producing halfblood and maybe even three quarter blood females when bred to British bred cows that did work in a lot of situations.  However, I believe that the commercial cowherd today has changed so much from where it was forty years ago that I really question if a person would like the half blood calves by these bulls today.   Galant may have more of a place as I feel he was a bit different type but I really believe there are better choices to use now.

Here are some pictures of Galant, Black Max, and Bold Future.

Offline Woody

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2012, 07:49:10 PM »
Thank you vcsf, I had never seen galant or black max pics before, they were before my time. I could very well see why so many people liked Galant and Bold Future. Used on the right cows a breeder could really get some outcross genetics for today's world.
On a seperate note, from what I recall about Papillion he sounds like he was the Heatwave of the simmy breed back then. His daughters didn't milk, he often "missed" but when he hit it was a home run.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Offline leanbeef

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2012, 10:11:47 PM »
Yep...those pictures just reminded me why I'm using Bold Future &'got me excited about using him again this fall! They also reminded me why I always liked Galant & why I would never go back to Black Max!

I was so excited when my dad came he from Volk's sale with a Papillion son...he was a really good bull, but there was nothing little about him. He was sound though, and he had more than enough depth and volume. I think he got a big boost of maternal value from his mother tho...Miss Clean 509K, I think was her name.

 

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