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Offline firesweepranch

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2012, 10:36:12 PM »
The two pics of Bold Future are different; markings are different. Is it two different sides or two different bulls? Looking at the legs, they do not look like they match...

Just wondering.
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Offline vcsf

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2012, 11:04:22 PM »
The two pics of Bold Future are different; markings are different. Is it two different sides or two different bulls? Looking at the legs, they do not look like they match...

Just wondering.

I am fairly sure that the second picture is his opposite side with the picture flipped to match the orientation of the rest of the pictures in the catalog.

Offline vcsf

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2012, 12:29:36 AM »
The question about Bold Future's pictures made me think of these pictures of Highwayman.  Yes, all three pictures are Highwayman and that is exactly how they appeared in ads or semen catalogs.  Guess which picture did not get much use although I will say the picture with the white was used by at least two of his owners in ads while the others are what appeared in semen catalogs.  I also think these pictures give some indication of the problems with leg set that were mentioned.

This also brings to mind a conversation I had with a major breeder here in Canada at a show about dying and painting of white on cattle.  We were watching a $35,000 black heifer show that has a small white spot on its flank and he mentioned that the owners had not painted the spot that day while sometimes they did.  I said that I had no real problem with painting it to show but did not agree with doing it when selling an animal.  He disagreed with me and was against it at any time saying that the show may be the only time a person sees an animal and may end up using the genetics especially in the case of a bull with out realizing there is white present.  When he said that I had to agree as too much white on legs and bellies is a big issue when trying to sell commercial bulls.  I also had to remember that this breeder bought a solid black bull in Denver a few years ago and when he got it home the bull developed almost a completely white belly and white on the legs.  Unfortunately there was a third party involved in him buying the bull and no one would take any responsibility and I don't think he ever bred a cow to the bull.

Offline leanbeef

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2012, 07:33:32 AM »
As soon as I saw that first picture labeled Bold Future, my first thot was that isn't Bold Future. Then I saw the 2nd photo which is him, and I thought maybe one of the photos had been flipped which is very possible. I'm not certain though that first photo isn't actually a bull called Bold Ruler,  the sire of Bold Future.

The middle picture of Highwayman is the photo that was used the most. I don't remember ever seeing either of those other photos. The top picture looks like a younger photo taken before he was mature and gained popularity. I would have guessed the bottom one to be a son...it reminds me a little of R&R The Wizard & even more so of another son whose name escapes me at the moment. And yes...it's very easy to see where his progeny got the extra set! They weren't ALL like that...I never saw one that was too straight, but some of em could get pretty bad.

Dang, now I'm gonna be trying to think of that other son's name all day! Somebody help me out here...

Offline ATM OH

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2012, 12:34:32 PM »
Very interesting thread.  I remember a lot of these bulls from my childhood (was born in 85' so some of them are hit or miss.)  We used to buy from Silvertowne in the early 90's.  I am posting a picture of a cow that shows the old school Simmental genetics - mixed with a more modern style.  Her dam was out of STF Master Key (Keystone son) and her sire was a halfblood Maine bull that goes back to DMCC Glamour Boy.  This cow was born in 2001 and the interesting thing is that she flat out works with todays club calf bulls...Monopoly, My Turn, and Carnac have all clicked with her.

Offline vcsf

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2012, 01:37:55 PM »
Leanbeef,  the first picture of Bold Future is of him as a yearling in the summer or early fall and was used by ABS for about three years until they switched to using the mature photo.  Below is a picture of Bold Ruler and it does not appear that he has a ring around either eye.  I have also included the first picture I ever saw of Bold Future that would have been taken right around a year of age before ABS got involved with him.  These two pictures are taken from ads on facing pages of the Register that came out when Bold Future was fourteen months old.

The first picture of Highwayman , I believe would be from when he was probably about five and was used by ABS in their catalog for a year or two before they started to use the second one.  The third picture with the white was used by both Reimer and Hook in ads that I believe were before ABS started to promote the bull.  It is truly hard to believe that a bull could have that much of a band on one side and none of it extend over his back to the other but I have to assume that is really him.

The only son of Highwayman besides The Wizard that I can remember really being promoted much was Magician.  Magician was a full brother to The Wizard but a couple of years younger and with less white.  Breck Ellison bought Magician out of Denver just after his dispersal.  Now, Brecks was a herd of eighties Simmental that were very popular and high dollar but largely of a type we never need to see again.

Offline Ohio1

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2012, 02:48:23 PM »
Very interesting thread.  I remember a lot of these bulls from my childhood (was born in 85' so some of them are hit or miss.)  We used to buy from Silvertowne in the early 90's.  I am posting a picture of a cow that shows the old school Simmental genetics - mixed with a more modern style.  Her dam was out of STF Master Key (Keystone son) and her sire was a halfblood Maine bull that goes back to DMCC Glamour Boy.  This cow was born in 2001 and the interesting thing is that she flat out works with todays club calf bulls...Monopoly, My Turn, and Carnac have all clicked with her.
Very interesting! Nice looking cow too  (thumbsup)

Offline leanbeef

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2012, 03:12:04 PM »
Yep...I remember Magician...that's not the bull I'm thinking of. This bull was ring eyed & had a belt...not as dark red as Wizard & Magician were. I'll think of his name eventually. It may take me a few days! Lol

Offline Cattle Cards

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2012, 04:17:52 PM »
Sue, Generation III was owned by Dave Stough and Singletree Farms. He was born in 1980. I referred back to my 1989 ABS sire directory, Singletree was a very prominent breeder of those flowered giants back then. Kingpin was also mostly owned by Michigan breeders.

Generation III was the '83 National Western Grand Champion Simmental Bull.  We bred 10 cows to him that summer.  As babies, you could tell which ones he had sired.  As yearlings, both my steers and my show heifer (my avatar) won a combined total of 2 Supremes, 3 Grands and 5 Reserves in 6 total shows (and 4 for 4 in Showmanship with the heifer).  They all had the same color, pattern and type.  All had good dispositions and were a joy to show.  He's my all-time favorite sire.
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Offline vcsf

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2012, 11:06:45 PM »
Yep...I remember Magician...that's not the bull I'm thinking of. This bull was ring eyed & had a belt...not as dark red as Wizard & Magician were. I'll think of his name eventually. It may take me a few days! Lol

For some reason it came to me that Beitz in Iowa had a Highwayman son named High Tech 901 out of a Polled Stretch cow of Volk's that I seem to remember fitting the description you are giving.  Also remembered a couple of black sons that were promoted a little and a red white face one that ABS marketed.

Edited to add
Took a quick look and found this picture of High Tech 901 who was marketed by Select Sires.  I would bet he is the bull you were thinking of and he really does resemble that picture of Highwayman.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 12:36:42 AM by vcsf »

Offline outspoken

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2012, 07:20:14 AM »
Yep...I remember Magician...that's not the bull I'm thinking of. This bull was ring eyed & had a belt...not as dark red as Wizard & Magician were. I'll think of his name eventually. It may take me a few days! Lol

For some reason it came to me that Beitz in Iowa had a Highwayman son named High Tech 901 out of a Polled Stretch cow of Volk's that I seem to remember fitting the description you are giving.  Also remembered a couple of black sons that were promoted a little and a red white face one that ABS marketed.

Edited to add
Took a quick look and found this picture of High Tech 901 who was marketed by Select Sires.  I would bet he is the bull you were thinking of and he really does resemble that picture of Highwayman.

I'd use that bull in a heartbeat if I had about 50 Angus cows....

Offline leanbeef

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2012, 07:48:29 AM »
Yep...That's him! We did use him a little bit. I wanna say that was early to mid 1990s... I don't remember ever seeing that picture of him, but that's him! Thanks!

Offline Black Sheep

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2012, 09:18:37 AM »
The first picture is J&C Black Maximizer. He is sired by Black Max and his dam was a full sister to Black Max. Yes, very line-bred/in-bred depending on your point of view. I remember Bob Volk telling me the reasoning behind that mating was they were trying to line-up the Miss Nick 175L cow, Black Max' dam. She was a black Mr. Clean daughter that was waaaaaayyyy before her time. Moderate, funcational, awesome! Black Max' sire, Performer, was where the birthweight and poor milk numbers came from. It's been many years, but last I heard, if you could even FIND Black Max semen, it was $400+ per straw. A good friend in Iowa had a tank go dry about 2006 that had 40 or so straws of Black Max in it. Not a good day. Black Max had a bunch of full brothers that were fairly popular in the day, but I don't remember their names. Black Max was 175L's natural calf and he was 4 inches taller and 300 pounds heavier than his brothers. The story behind Black Max' early demise was that he was killed as a 3 year-old in a fight with a yearling Angus bull. I can remember buying Black Max semen for $15 and after he was killed it went through the roof! A former business partner had great luck with Black Max, including the female in the second picture, who's dam was a Papillon daughter with a -10 milk EPD, but milked like a Holstein... Both Black Max and Black Maximizer (you can find semen on him without too much trouble, may be cheap, may be more expensive) on today's very moderate, deep ribbed, easy fleshing Angus cows works GREAT!!! Been there, done it.
The third pic is Circle S Leachman 600U. Never used the bull much. I remember he always put a very distinctive hip on his calves.
Last pic is Signal. The Signal daughters were phenomenal cows. Yes, some of them were way too big and were colored up pretty badly, but the majority were great, functional, very maternal females. Black Max worked extremely well on Signal daughters back in the day.

Offline outspoken

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2012, 10:05:25 AM »
All of these pictures, and talk of these old Sim bulls—really makes me think I might have something good going on with what I’ve got in my tank.  These pedigrees are loaded with bulls being discussed and pictured on this thread; both good and bad.  See anything else in those pedigrees worth talking about?  Anyone have thoughts on what kind of Angus cow I should use this stuff on?

                                                        BLACK MAGIC0589588P
                                                 PERFORMER0764145P
                                                        FURGESONS J70110444462P
                                   BLACK MAX1078957P
                                                        MR CLEAN0398615S
                                                MISS NICK 175L0586320P
                                                       MISS NICK 211E0126927P
                J&C BLACK MAXIMIZER W51211738P
                                                      BLACK MAGIC0589588P
                                          PERFORMER0764145P
                                                      FURGESONS J70110444462P
                                  MISS NICK 587T1125888P
                                                     MR CLEAN0398615S
                                         MISS NICK 175L0586320P
                                                      MISS NICK 211E0126927P
  JVS BLACK STAR B3261596916P
                                                      EXTRA BLACK0561210S
                                        BUCK0746365BBP
                                                      LSF MS ONEINAMILLION 92L0542488P
                        LHT MR BLACK NIGHT1077516P
                                                      BLACK MAGIC0589588P
                                       LHT MISS MAGIC 49P0843750P
                                                      LHT MISS SIGNAL 59J0465672H
                                      LLS 337W1186067P
                                                       MR P AND B0659957P
                Y1 YARDLEYS P&B R2480899182PP
                                                       CKR MISS EAGLE E33L0557050P
                                   LLS MISS YARDLY 343T1061748P
                                                         MOMEEN PAUL0258819H
                                               SAS 6K0535920P
                                                        79H_0391550P
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                           CIBO(7290180)
                                               EXTRA0006084H
                                                            LILA(7700551)
                        EXTRA BLACK0561210S
                                                           ABRICOT0058311H
                                              -U MISS ABRICOT IG40349334S
                                                            -U COW EG50165399P
           BUCK0746365BBP
                                                            ABRICOT0058311H
                                                 MR CLEAN0398615S
                                                             CKR MISS CEZON 044F0171845P
                         LSF MS ONEINAMILLION 92L0542488P
                                                              BAR 11 UELI0005339H
                                                 LSF MS 7/8 UELI 52J0415206H
                                                              LSF MS 3-4 SIGNAL 43G0261144H
  SGA BIG BLACK1483354P
                                                              SULTAN(8092528)
                                                 SIEGFRIED0146340H
                                                               BIENE(7176194)
                      SIEGFRIEDS POWER0827182H
                                                             MIDAS II(7278555)
                                                TOWER FRIEDA0403881
                                                              MARY(7704830
         GRETEL1108178H
                                                               EXTRA0006084H
                                                     EXTRA BLACK0561210S
                                                                -U MISS ABRICOT IG40349334S
                       GRETCHEN0757978P
                                                                GALANT0000010H
                                                BLOSSOM0631701P
                                                                 APPLE0518682P
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                 ABRICOT0058311H
                                                      EAGLE0380812S
                                                                CKR MISS CEZON 044F0171845P
                             SALUTE OF SIM-POL SP20K0495618P
                                                                GALANT0000010H
                                                      MISS SIM-POL I0291094P
                                                                DLC-E-1610118326P
                   RBR PAPILLON0892405P
                                                               CIBO(7290180)
                                                    EXTRA0006084H
                                                               LILA(7700551)
                            RBR FANCY LEGGS0581394P
                                                              SIGNAL0006110H
                                                   BTR SIGNAL MISS0404575P
                                                               D7205_0172613P
  SS STUD1274757P
                                                               VIKTOR(7591734)
                                                 ABRICOT0058311H
                                                               REJANE(7299799)
                               PINEVIEW JAZZ0841446S
                                                                 CSV ACHILLES SUPERSTAR0289194H
                                                   ESM-AF CAREY 49K0513744P
                                                                   RR COUNTRY GIRL0352352P
                    C S MISS LIZ1041831
                                                                    OPERA(7366180)
                                                    SIGNAL0006110H
                                                                     JOLIETTE(7699779)
                                    LSF JULIE0576704H
                                                                       GALANT0000010H
                                                    JULIE0126050H
                                                                       PIA0044439H

« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 10:13:01 AM by outspoken »

Offline leanbeef

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Re: The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2012, 11:04:09 AM »
I remember all the cattle in those pictures. I used both Maximizer and 600U a little, and I remember Moon Glow well. Always had great respect for Signal & I consider him one of the more important forefathers in American Simmental. My dad bought a Signal son from Marwood Farms back around 1980 or '81...really good bull. He sired the first champion heifer I ever showed. Man, I loved that heifer!...

As far as those pedigrees go...that first bull is kinda interesting. I've been through some of Yardley's cattle a couple times, and that program is sound as they come. For us, I wish the cattle were stouter numbered, but the females are sure the right kind and I think they'd work anywhere! They're on my short list of programs I really want to buy from someday.

You wouldn't happen to have a picture of that Maximizer bull outta the Yardley cow, would ya?

The middle one could go either way based on his pedigree. I thought the Seigfrid in there was pretty interesting... And then that bottom one...prob not as optimistic about him!

 

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