The resurrection of the 1980's simmentals

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yukon pete

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We used Galant back in the 70's and had really good luck. Had 3 steers out of him and our shorthorn cows that were all class winners at our state fair. I tried to find an old picture of him recently and have failed miserably. I know we got the semen from New Breeds Industries out of Manhattan, KS. I've got a really good idea of what he looked like, but I'd really like to see a picture of the old boy.  If any of you have one, could you please post it here?   
 

leanbeef

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I have a bank of old Simmental Shield magazines at my Dad's...That was the precurser to today's Register. I'll have to look for those & see what pictures I can find. I studied those magazines when I was a kid like I was gonna have to pass a test on that stuff! I think Galant was prob one of the best sires we had back then along with Signal & Abricot. It does kinda make me wonder what calves out of those bulls might look like in the context of present day beef industry standards.
 

vcsf

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I think I would have to side with leanbeef that of the bulls mentioned about the only ones I could see going back and using today would be Bold Future and maybe DS Pollfleck.  I actually did use a bit of Bold Future a few years ago and know where there are some DS Pollfleck embryos out of a black cow that the owner has suggested I should implant and I have considered doing so.

I agree Black Max definitely sired the look in the early to mid nineties.  Some of these cattle probably could have a place today except the biggest complaint I heard about the bull was that it could be a challenge to get some of them out of the cow and the breed definitely does not need to go back to that.  Regardless, my understanding is the semen supply was virtually exhausted while he was still popular.

Highwayman could throw a fair bit of white and I think some of them probably got plenty big without enough body to them in proportion to the height and there were some other issues.  600U did a good job at the time and his descendants are still very prominent in the breed and I believe they have a far bigger role to play today than 600U himself.

I think where a lot of the original bulls like Signal and Abricot really shown with regards to the commercial industry was in producing halfblood and maybe even three quarter blood females when bred to British bred cows that did work in a lot of situations.  However, I believe that the commercial cowherd today has changed so much from where it was forty years ago that I really question if a person would like the half blood calves by these bulls today.  Galant may have more of a place as I feel he was a bit different type but I really believe there are better choices to use now.

Here are some pictures of Galant, Black Max, and Bold Future.
 

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Woody

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Thank you vcsf, I had never seen galant or black max pics before, they were before my time. I could very well see why so many people liked Galant and Bold Future. Used on the right cows a breeder could really get some outcross genetics for today's world.
On a seperate note, from what I recall about Papillion he sounds like he was the Heatwave of the simmy breed back then. His daughters didn't milk, he often "missed" but when he hit it was a home run.
 

leanbeef

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Yep...those pictures just reminded me why I'm using Bold Future &'got me excited about using him again this fall! They also reminded me why I always liked Galant & why I would never go back to Black Max!

I was so excited when my dad came he from Volk's sale with a Papillion son...he was a really good bull, but there was nothing little about him. He was sound though, and he had more than enough depth and volume. I think he got a big boost of maternal value from his mother tho...Miss Clean 509K, I think was her name.
 

firesweepranch

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The two pics of Bold Future are different; markings are different. Is it two different sides or two different bulls? Looking at the legs, they do not look like they match...

Just wondering.
 

vcsf

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firesweepranch said:
The two pics of Bold Future are different; markings are different. Is it two different sides or two different bulls? Looking at the legs, they do not look like they match...

Just wondering.

I am fairly sure that the second picture is his opposite side with the picture flipped to match the orientation of the rest of the pictures in the catalog.
 

vcsf

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The question about Bold Future's pictures made me think of these pictures of Highwayman.  Yes, all three pictures are Highwayman and that is exactly how they appeared in ads or semen catalogs.  Guess which picture did not get much use although I will say the picture with the white was used by at least two of his owners in ads while the others are what appeared in semen catalogs.  I also think these pictures give some indication of the problems with leg set that were mentioned.

This also brings to mind a conversation I had with a major breeder here in Canada at a show about dying and painting of white on cattle.  We were watching a $35,000 black heifer show that has a small white spot on its flank and he mentioned that the owners had not painted the spot that day while sometimes they did.  I said that I had no real problem with painting it to show but did not agree with doing it when selling an animal.  He disagreed with me and was against it at any time saying that the show may be the only time a person sees an animal and may end up using the genetics especially in the case of a bull with out realizing there is white present.  When he said that I had to agree as too much white on legs and bellies is a big issue when trying to sell commercial bulls.  I also had to remember that this breeder bought a solid black bull in Denver a few years ago and when he got it home the bull developed almost a completely white belly and white on the legs.  Unfortunately there was a third party involved in him buying the bull and no one would take any responsibility and I don't think he ever bred a cow to the bull.
 

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leanbeef

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As soon as I saw that first picture labeled Bold Future, my first thot was that isn't Bold Future. Then I saw the 2nd photo which is him, and I thought maybe one of the photos had been flipped which is very possible. I'm not certain though that first photo isn't actually a bull called Bold Ruler,  the sire of Bold Future.

The middle picture of Highwayman is the photo that was used the most. I don't remember ever seeing either of those other photos. The top picture looks like a younger photo taken before he was mature and gained popularity. I would have guessed the bottom one to be a son...it reminds me a little of R&R The Wizard & even more so of another son whose name escapes me at the moment. And yes...it's very easy to see where his progeny got the extra set! They weren't ALL like that...I never saw one that was too straight, but some of em could get pretty bad.

Dang, now I'm gonna be trying to think of that other son's name all day! Somebody help me out here...
 

ATM OH

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Very interesting thread.  I remember a lot of these bulls from my childhood (was born in 85' so some of them are hit or miss.)  We used to buy from Silvertowne in the early 90's.  I am posting a picture of a cow that shows the old school Simmental genetics - mixed with a more modern style.  Her dam was out of STF Master Key (Keystone son) and her sire was a halfblood Maine bull that goes back to DMCC Glamour Boy.  This cow was born in 2001 and the interesting thing is that she flat out works with todays club calf bulls...Monopoly, My Turn, and Carnac have all clicked with her.
 

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vcsf

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Leanbeef,  the first picture of Bold Future is of him as a yearling in the summer or early fall and was used by ABS for about three years until they switched to using the mature photo.  Below is a picture of Bold Ruler and it does not appear that he has a ring around either eye.  I have also included the first picture I ever saw of Bold Future that would have been taken right around a year of age before ABS got involved with him.  These two pictures are taken from ads on facing pages of the Register that came out when Bold Future was fourteen months old.

The first picture of Highwayman , I believe would be from when he was probably about five and was used by ABS in their catalog for a year or two before they started to use the second one.  The third picture with the white was used by both Reimer and Hook in ads that I believe were before ABS started to promote the bull.  It is truly hard to believe that a bull could have that much of a band on one side and none of it extend over his back to the other but I have to assume that is really him.

The only son of Highwayman besides The Wizard that I can remember really being promoted much was Magician.  Magician was a full brother to The Wizard but a couple of years younger and with less white.  Breck Ellison bought Magician out of Denver just after his dispersal.  Now, Breck’s was a herd of eighties Simmental that were very popular and high dollar but largely of a type we never need to see again.
 

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Ohio1

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ATM OH said:
Very interesting thread.  I remember a lot of these bulls from my childhood (was born in 85' so some of them are hit or miss.)  We used to buy from Silvertowne in the early 90's.  I am posting a picture of a cow that shows the old school Simmental genetics - mixed with a more modern style.  Her dam was out of STF Master Key (Keystone son) and her sire was a halfblood Maine bull that goes back to DMCC Glamour Boy.  This cow was born in 2001 and the interesting thing is that she flat out works with todays club calf bulls...Monopoly, My Turn, and Carnac have all clicked with her.
Very interesting! Nice looking cow too  (thumbsup)
 

leanbeef

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Yep...I remember Magician...that's not the bull I'm thinking of. This bull was ring eyed & had a belt...not as dark red as Wizard & Magician were. I'll think of his name eventually. It may take me a few days! Lol
 

Cattle Cards

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Woody said:
Sue, Generation III was owned by Dave Stough and Singletree Farms. He was born in 1980. I referred back to my 1989 ABS sire directory, Singletree was a very prominent breeder of those flowered giants back then. Kingpin was also mostly owned by Michigan breeders.

Generation III was the '83 National Western Grand Champion Simmental Bull.  We bred 10 cows to him that summer.  As babies, you could tell which ones he had sired.  As yearlings, both my steers and my show heifer (my avatar) won a combined total of 2 Supremes, 3 Grands and 5 Reserves in 6 total shows (and 4 for 4 in Showmanship with the heifer).  They all had the same color, pattern and type.  All had good dispositions and were a joy to show.  He's my all-time favorite sire.
<cowboy>
 

vcsf

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leanbeef said:
Yep...I remember Magician...that's not the bull I'm thinking of. This bull was ring eyed & had a belt...not as dark red as Wizard & Magician were. I'll think of his name eventually. It may take me a few days! Lol

For some reason it came to me that Beitz in Iowa had a Highwayman son named High Tech 901 out of a Polled Stretch cow of Volk's that I seem to remember fitting the description you are giving.  Also remembered a couple of black sons that were promoted a little and a red white face one that ABS marketed.

Edited to add
Took a quick look and found this picture of High Tech 901 who was marketed by Select Sires.  I would bet he is the bull you were thinking of and he really does resemble that picture of Highwayman.
 

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kfacres

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vcsf said:
leanbeef said:
Yep...I remember Magician...that's not the bull I'm thinking of. This bull was ring eyed & had a belt...not as dark red as Wizard & Magician were. I'll think of his name eventually. It may take me a few days! Lol

For some reason it came to me that Beitz in Iowa had a Highwayman son named High Tech 901 out of a Polled Stretch cow of Volk's that I seem to remember fitting the description you are giving.  Also remembered a couple of black sons that were promoted a little and a red white face one that ABS marketed.

Edited to add
Took a quick look and found this picture of High Tech 901 who was marketed by Select Sires.  I would bet he is the bull you were thinking of and he really does resemble that picture of Highwayman.

I'd use that bull in a heartbeat if I had about 50 Angus cows....
 

leanbeef

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Yep...That's him! We did use him a little bit. I wanna say that was early to mid 1990s... I don't remember ever seeing that picture of him, but that's him! Thanks!
 

Black Sheep

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The first picture is J&C Black Maximizer. He is sired by Black Max and his dam was a full sister to Black Max. Yes, very line-bred/in-bred depending on your point of view. I remember Bob Volk telling me the reasoning behind that mating was they were trying to line-up the Miss Nick 175L cow, Black Max' dam. She was a black Mr. Clean daughter that was waaaaaayyyy before her time. Moderate, funcational, awesome! Black Max' sire, Performer, was where the birthweight and poor milk numbers came from. It's been many years, but last I heard, if you could even FIND Black Max semen, it was $400+ per straw. A good friend in Iowa had a tank go dry about 2006 that had 40 or so straws of Black Max in it. Not a good day. Black Max had a bunch of full brothers that were fairly popular in the day, but I don't remember their names. Black Max was 175L's natural calf and he was 4 inches taller and 300 pounds heavier than his brothers. The story behind Black Max' early demise was that he was killed as a 3 year-old in a fight with a yearling Angus bull. I can remember buying Black Max semen for $15 and after he was killed it went through the roof! A former business partner had great luck with Black Max, including the female in the second picture, who's dam was a Papillon daughter with a -10 milk EPD, but milked like a Holstein... Both Black Max and Black Maximizer (you can find semen on him without too much trouble, may be cheap, may be more expensive) on today's very moderate, deep ribbed, easy fleshing Angus cows works GREAT!!! Been there, done it.
The third pic is Circle S Leachman 600U. Never used the bull much. I remember he always put a very distinctive hip on his calves.
Last pic is Signal. The Signal daughters were phenomenal cows. Yes, some of them were way too big and were colored up pretty badly, but the majority were great, functional, very maternal females. Black Max worked extremely well on Signal daughters back in the day.
 

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kfacres

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All of these pictures, and talk of these old Sim bulls—really makes me think I might have something good going on with what I’ve got in my tank.  These pedigrees are loaded with bulls being discussed and pictured on this thread; both good and bad.  See anything else in those pedigrees worth talking about?  Anyone have thoughts on what kind of Angus cow I should use this stuff on?

                                                        BLACK MAGIC0589588P
                                                PERFORMER0764145P
                                                        FURGESONS J70110444462P
                                  BLACK MAX1078957P
                                                        MR CLEAN0398615S
                                                MISS NICK 175L0586320P
                                                      MISS NICK 211E0126927P
                J&C BLACK MAXIMIZER W51211738P
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                                  MISS NICK 587T1125888P
                                                    MR CLEAN0398615S
                                        MISS NICK 175L0586320P
                                                      MISS NICK 211E0126927P
  JVS BLACK STAR B3261596916P
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                                        BUCK0746365BBP
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leanbeef

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I remember all the cattle in those pictures. I used both Maximizer and 600U a little, and I remember Moon Glow well. Always had great respect for Signal & I consider him one of the more important forefathers in American Simmental. My dad bought a Signal son from Marwood Farms back around 1980 or '81...really good bull. He sired the first champion heifer I ever showed. Man, I loved that heifer!...

As far as those pedigrees go...that first bull is kinda interesting. I've been through some of Yardley's cattle a couple times, and that program is sound as they come. For us, I wish the cattle were stouter numbered, but the females are sure the right kind and I think they'd work anywhere! They're on my short list of programs I really want to buy from someday.

You wouldn't happen to have a picture of that Maximizer bull outta the Yardley cow, would ya?

The middle one could go either way based on his pedigree. I thought the Seigfrid in there was pretty interesting... And then that bottom one...prob not as optimistic about him!
 
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