Timed AI, or CIDR and heat Detect

Hey everyone.  I am in the process of putting CIDR's in a few of my cows.  I am wondering what everyone has had better conception rates with.  Timed AI at 66-72 hours, or heat detecting between days 7-13.  I am inserting CIDR's by the end of the week, and giving them their GNRH.  I am just wondering if it is better to go the extra mile to heat detect, or if I should just breed them all on one day. 
I am using the protocals from the Genex book.  One is referred to as Select-Synch+CIDR.  The other is CO-Synch + CIDR.

In the same boat here...trying to figure out when it is best to put in CIDRs also.  If put in on this Friday, then pulled and Lute given next Friday, cows should be cycling that Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday and then TAI all nonresponders between 72-84 hours???

Am I reading into this correctly?  Thanks for any and all help.

I don't think the question has ever been whether heat detecting improves conception rates, it does.

The question is do you have the time to do it properly.

CJB said:

In the same boat here...trying to figure out when it is best to put in CIDRs also.  If put in on this Friday, then pulled and Lute given next Friday, cows should be cycling that Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday and then TAI all nonresponders between 72-84 hours???

Am I reading into this correctly?  Thanks for any and all help.

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Yes that is correct.  But you can also give a shot of GNRH at AI (which would be considered timed).  This would be done on day 10.  I am thinking it is convenient, but sort of goes beyond nature.  I think I would be better off breeding on heats, but if the conseption rate is the same I will do timed.

I pulled everything in at once this year and did timed AI.  Some of the animals were in heat, and ready to breed anyways.  I havent noticed any comming back into heat yet though. 

If you go to absglobal.com or selectsires.com they both have protocol onthere you can choose from.  We have our best luck when we check heats for 7 days prior to putting cidrs in (as those will be less likley to respond) and AI them.  Then we pull cidrs and watch for heats.  We AI off of heats and then you can AI anything doesn't show heats when you AI your largest group.  That is what we do.  We did something a little different this year- we pulled cidrs after 5 days.  (I was advised by some one here that it wouldn't work- and we have yet to find out) But the theory behind that is this- It was thought that the majority of cows develop folicles in 2 waves however some do 3 waves.  The 5 day deal is to help catch those girls that develope off the 3 wave cycle. (I am probably not explaining that correctly, but it makes sence to me  (lol)) It is something new that is being done.  We consulted about 4 different repro guys on this and decided to use it.  Not to mention a few people on the planet 

Good luck!

Fluffer

We do everything on heats, we set up groups for embryo's every year and they will come in with a main group and then the stragglers will be up to 2 days later, never could see wasting the semen if I didn't see them in heat.  We set up a group last Sunday for breeding and should be AI'ing tomorrow.

I also had a tough time wasting semen on cows that didn't show heat, but I have found that a lot of them do take even with no sign of heat.  I have also found that some AI bulls work better then others when you are doing the time AI.  We AI'd our cows on 6/7 but have been checking heats and so far nothing has been back in so we are hoping that means everything responded to the drugs.  We still have a week though.

One thing I left out earlier is that we give a shot of gnrh when we AI anything not showing heat or if we aren't sure when she came in.  gnrh will make them release the egg.

Fluffer

fluffer said:

  I have also found that some AI bulls work better then others when you are doing the time AI. 

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You are right on about this Fluffer.  The dairy industry does a lot more AI and syncing than us, and they actually have a "proof" (like an epd) for this.  They DO have bulls that work better than others in Synch programs.  Perhaps it has a lot to do with the mobility of the sperm.  Being able to survive and swim for a long time in the cervix.  This might be where some cows can concieve even though they are not at the perfect time of their heat to be bred.