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Offline kiblercattle

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #105 on: February 04, 2019, 08:32:38 PM »
Wow xbar that is a monster for sure.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #106 on: February 04, 2019, 08:40:20 PM »
ive saved em that big-but I did things like preg the cow-knew it was coming-and with the vet having palpated etc induced the trainwreck-got the calf out-and never used Awesome again-even had a low BW one out of him on the young sire deal from a different Byland cow, That one never threw a big calf If you live and die by EPDS and not by your instincts-then some of your calves will die too-How could you not see that coming from a moderate cow like that?  O0
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 08:42:58 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline kiblercattle

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #107 on: February 04, 2019, 08:50:42 PM »
I would say for cattle to be commercially acceptable you better not have to do all that bs to get a live calf and cow. Mark imo if a actual cowman read your post and thinks that's what you have to do when you use shorthorn bulls on cows that are designed to meet commercial needs selling shorthorns bull isn't going to fly. I don't know how big that calf is but looks like a 6 ft wide trailer and he darn sure takes up 2/3 of it.

Online Medium Rare

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #108 on: February 04, 2019, 08:56:43 PM »
According to the RFD program, all the calves in the sire tests, 250ish, have came unassisted and so far 80% graded choice or higher. Some of the bulls that have been entered carry some thickness, might be worth browsing the results to pick one out E6.

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #109 on: February 04, 2019, 09:02:31 PM »
Everyone knows you can subtract 10lbs from their birthweight when coming 2000 miles south south  ::)
 
That red calf was a heifer too, the cow a 4yr old trying to calve her third calf.  I didnt weigh this one but it was easily 120 plus.

This one here was a real dandy too.  Steer Planet Fav, Davis Shorthorns here  -beaut isnt he  ;) - helped me get this bull calf out.  He weighed 131.  Would have made a nice rug


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Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #110 on: February 04, 2019, 09:07:49 PM »
Everyone knows you can subtract 10lbs from their birthweight when coming 2000 miles south south  ::)
 
That red calf was a heifer too, the cow a 4yr old trying to calve her third calf.  I didnt weigh this one but it was easily 120 plus.

This one here was a real dandy too.  Steer Planet Fav, Davis Shorthorns here  -beaut isnt he  ;) - helped me get this bull calf out.  He weighed 131.  Would have made a nice rug

Just have the vet out early to palpate the cow. Then schedule a c section. Totally commercially viable.
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Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #111 on: February 04, 2019, 09:20:20 PM »
According to the RFD program, all the calves in the sire tests, 250ish, have came unassisted and so far 80% graded choice or higher. Some of the bulls that have been entered carry some thickness, might be worth browsing the results to pick one out E6.

Last I looked, it cost a pretty penny to nominate a bull for the test. I could be wrong this year but if the ASA is going to have a sire test, why does it cost the producer so much dinero? Why not let any breeder who thinks they have a bull worthy submit a cane of semen? Why charge a fee? Have an initial proposal put out by the ASA asking for bulls. After everybody has submitted a bull/ bulls, have a vote by the whole memebership via a online survey to make sure the breed is fully represented by the samples. Dont make money be the variable as to whether a bull is worthy of the test. Let peer reviewed decide. Why limit it with exaborant fees? The breed needs all the help it can get, not some arbitrary fee so the ASA and U of I can collect the cash.

10 bulls in the latest round of sire test. Thats ridiculous. I hope Monte reads SP. or whoever is in charge of that test.
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Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #112 on: February 04, 2019, 09:22:23 PM »
7 farms represented in that sire test. We can do better
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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #113 on: February 04, 2019, 09:26:15 PM »
I would say for cattle to be commercially acceptable you better not have to do all that bs to get a live calf and cow. Mark imo if a actual cowman read your post and thinks that's what you have to do when you use shorthorn bulls on cows that are designed to meet commercial needs selling shorthorns bull isn't going to fly. I don't know how big that calf is but looks like a 6 ft wide trailer and he darn sure takes up 2/3 of it./// The one Im talking about I had that size was sired by Deertrail Awesome in 1992-Regardless: even when we had 250 cows at Deertrail-or my measly 18 cows in Va-I and later (We) pregged everything-and vetted them again farther along . So do alot of Angus breeders at least around here-And alot of the postings on rhis thread certainly arent commercial recommendations-This has not as a whole remained avery serious thread as much as a vendetta.-Who can post the biggest butt or when it comes to the humor BE THE BIGGEST BUTT I would think anyone would have reservations about the direction and or spirit that the thread is moving in -And JMO, should not take the entire content in a serious vein-(re useful breed info.)Even though  some valid and interesting points have been made You are certainly right on one thing-anyone who sees those pictures sure as blazes wouldnt go near a Shorthorn-even though it also happens with other breeds-OK folks-lets see your TH and PHA calves next O0

Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #114 on: February 04, 2019, 09:37:26 PM »
A second preg check is another trip though the chute. Another vet bill. Again, not commercially viable. I dont check a thing. If they dont calve, they are sold for burger shortly after. If their calf doesnt make it to weaning, they go to burger. Its not rocket science. Like ol Gabe Brown says, my cows only get one chance to make a mistake. That should be all seedstock producers mentality.

Lots of good suggestions of bulls on here. I dont care where this thread goes. Its my thread. Let it be. The idea was identifying thick bulls.  More retail product. But too thick or too big is no bueno. Without injjecting Maine, the only way I see goingforward is use bigger BW bulls and breed on offspring that showed calving ease attributes.
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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #115 on: February 04, 2019, 09:39:01 PM »
According to the RFD program, all the calves in the sire tests, 250ish, have came unassisted and so far 80% graded choice or higher. Some of the bulls that have been entered carry some thickness, might be worth browsing the results to pick one out E6.

Last I looked, it cost a pretty penny to nominate a bull for the test. I could be wrong this year but if the ASA is going to have a sire test, why does it cost the producer so much dinero? Why not let any breeder who thinks they have a bull worthy submit a cane of semen? Why charge a fee? Have an initial proposal put out by the ASA asking for bulls. After everybody has submitted a bull/ bulls, have a vote by the whole memebership via a online survey to make sure the breed is fully represented by the samples. Dont make money be the variable as to whether a bull is worthy of the test. Let peer reviewed decide. Why limit it with exaborant fees? The breed needs all the help it can get, not some arbitrary fee so the ASA and U of I can collect the cash.

10 bulls in the latest round of sire test. Thats ridiculous. I hope Monte reads SP. or whoever is in charge of that test.

I have serious issues with the test and the ASA in general, but that doesn't mean the info can't be used. The UofI does not work cheap. Rent a grow safe pen at your nearest test station and see how much it sets you back.

Unless you're entering a bull, they're sorting multiple readily available bulls for you. Free of charge.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #116 on: February 04, 2019, 09:43:12 PM »
Everyone knows you can subtract 10lbs from their birthweight when coming 2000 miles south south  ::)
 
That red calf was a heifer too, the cow a 4yr old trying to calve her third calf.  I didnt weigh this one but it was easily 120 plus.

This one here was a real dandy too.  Steer Planet Fav, Davis Shorthorns here  -beaut isnt he  ;) - helped me get this bull calf out.  He weighed 131.  Would have made a nice rug

Just have the vet out early to palpate the cow. Then schedule a c section. Totally commercially viable.//// Why spend $50-$75.00  to save a cow and a calf? Thats like saying why buy your kids shoes?-Your cattle must not bring much-glad I dont have to depend upon the sale barn for the 100%  -PS we didnt C section any of the big calves in the day maybe should have-we did have the vet there and slowly moved the calf out jacking and holding it up slightly-then bringing it out some-reversing the up down as he called it and eventually it came out-I saw a c section in ill.last winter that only took about 20 minutes total. I imagine up in a part of central Iowa its faster than that-lots of practice O0
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 09:46:57 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline wiseguy

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #117 on: February 04, 2019, 09:51:33 PM »
According to the RFD program, all the calves in the sire tests, 250ish, have came unassisted and so far 80% graded choice or higher. Some of the bulls that have been entered carry some thickness, might be worth browsing the results to pick one out E6.

Last I looked, it cost a pretty penny to nominate a bull for the test. I could be wrong this year but if the ASA is going to have a sire test, why does it cost the producer so much dinero? Why not let any breeder who thinks they have a bull worthy submit a cane of semen? Why charge a fee? Have an initial proposal put out by the ASA asking for bulls. After everybody has submitted a bull/ bulls, have a vote by the whole memebership via a online survey to make sure the breed is fully represented by the samples. Dont make money be the variable as to whether a bull is worthy of the test. Let peer reviewed decide. Why limit it with exaborant fees? The breed needs all the help it can get, not some arbitrary fee so the ASA and U of I can collect the cash.

10 bulls in the latest round of sire test. Thats ridiculous. I hope Monte reads SP. or whoever is in charge of that test.

Brock,
I was responsible for getting the ASA sire test program going. When I was chair of the Shorthorn plus committee I approached the U of I after Simmental and Charolais had done similar tests. I think it would be rude to discuss actual numbers, but lets just agree it was more than 20k and less than 50k for the U of I to let us participate. If you would have attended the sire test field day one of the things Matt discussed was the value of the test in actual dollars. I nominated my bull Imperative. He had 16 calves. For my $2,000 dollars I paid someone to collect all the performance data, DNA genotype the calves, collect data from the grow safe system, (which I don't have) and compare them to 14 other sires within the breed. So it cost me $125 a head. I am very comfortable with that. There is nowhere else that this is being done. Period. Compared to the Waukaru, Lovings, Jungels, Leveldale, etc I am a little fish in a big pond. I calve 25-30 cows a year. Last I checked they are all over 100. But I still feel like I have one of the best bulls in the breed, and it was time to prove it.

The ASA can't just drop that kind of money on a sire test. Heck that is a persons salary at the association. As breeders we have to "put up or shut up!" I wish our association could afford to offer this service, but they can't.  If you disagree with me that's fine. No hard feelings. It's a big cost. I just think it was worth it.

Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #118 on: February 04, 2019, 10:00:03 PM »
According to the RFD program, all the calves in the sire tests, 250ish, have came unassisted and so far 80% graded choice or higher. Some of the bulls that have been entered carry some thickness, might be worth browsing the results to pick one out E6.

Last I looked, it cost a pretty penny to nominate a bull for the test. I could be wrong this year but if the ASA is going to have a sire test, why does it cost the producer so much dinero? Why not let any breeder who thinks they have a bull worthy submit a cane of semen? Why charge a fee? Have an initial proposal put out by the ASA asking for bulls. After everybody has submitted a bull/ bulls, have a vote by the whole memebership via a online survey to make sure the breed is fully represented by the samples. Dont make money be the variable as to whether a bull is worthy of the test. Let peer reviewed decide. Why limit it with exaborant fees? The breed needs all the help it can get, not some arbitrary fee so the ASA and U of I can collect the cash.

10 bulls in the latest round of sire test. Thats ridiculous. I hope Monte reads SP. or whoever is in charge of that test.

Brock,
I was responsible for getting the ASA sire test program going. When I was chair of the Shorthorn plus committee I approached the U of I after Simmental and Charolais had done similar tests. I think it would be rude to discuss actual numbers, but lets just agree it was more than 20k and less than 50k for the U of I to let us participate. If you would have attended the sire test field day one of the things Matt discussed was the value of the test in actual dollars. I nominated my bull Imperative. He had 16 calves. For my $2,000 dollars I paid someone to collect all the performance data, DNA genotype the calves, collect data from the grow safe system, (which I don't have) and compare them to 14 other sires within the breed. So it cost me $125 a head. I am very comfortable with that. There is nowhere else that this is being done. Period. Compared to the Waukaru, Lovings, Jungels, Leveldale, etc I am a little fish in a big pond. I calve 25-30 cows a year. Last I checked they are all over 100. But I still feel like I have one of the best bulls in the breed, and it was time to prove it.

The ASA can't just drop that kind of money on a sire test. Heck that is a persons salary at the association. As breeders we have to "put up or shut up!" I wish our association could afford to offer this service, but they can't.  If you disagree with me that's fine. No hard feelings. It's a big cost. I just think it was worth it.

Great points by you and medium rare. Does the U of I give a break down for the reasons for the costs? Im sure the grow safe feeders were not cheap. But for the money they charge it would seem to me a good business venture to create a similar test station. I appreciate all the effort put into it, I just couldnt get my head around the costs. 14 bulls at 2k a bull is 28k. Who got the money when the calves were sold?
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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #119 on: February 04, 2019, 10:00:40 PM »
A second preg check is another trip though the chute. Another vet bill. Again, not commercially viable. I dont check a thing. If they dont calve, they are sold for burger shortly after. If their calf doesnt make it to weaning, they go to burger. Its not rocket science. Like ol Gabe Brown says, my cows only get one chance to make a mistake. That should be all seedstock producers mentality.

Lots of good suggestions of bulls on here. I dont care where this thread goes. Its my thread. Let it be. The idea was identifying thick bulls.  More retail product. But too thick or too big is no bueno. Without injjecting Maine, the only way I see goingforward is use bigger BW bulls and breed on offspring that showed calving ease attributes.//// Then you are bound to  have repeats of the pictures above -how much do a couple dead cows cost--$2000? There are still 3-4 seedstock producers with 70-150 cows within 4 miles of me-guys Ive known for years. I he;p work them-move them across the road this and that-And all of them at a minimum preg the cows and if they are a little worried about a few of them-palpate them when they work them again just to be safe-If you cant get your cows up to work them then it stands to reason they wont be in as good an order as with  a little general maintenance  O0

 

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