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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2019, 02:54:36 PM »
Video up above shows a very stout but fluid hiefer walking on cobbled up frozen ground to me-shes got too much grow to look like a steer: and is certainly sounder than most-Brads bull does-even though hes as big as alot of bulls that are pedestrian in breeding-But thats what he is supposed to look like-The bait on the hook in this thread is about-"I dont care about nothin but thick"-like many threads-no comment from the kid who wrote it LOLThe white one was 850 pounds at 9.5 months-thick cattle look like steers against frail ones every time-you want them wider? You breed them to wider cattle-pretty basic-Her dam  has as good an udder as any-They were second at the Nat Jr show-the white calf was called the best animal in the show- The first caf hiefer that was champ appendix pair (ratty angus bull got out and bred her) was the first pictured cows first calf-she also won Acksarban, Iowa, Division American Royal etc-These are good cows and they dont resemble steers to the judges or anyone who has seen them They are just powerfull cattle and extremely sound Back to changing frail ass cattle-Heres the bull that Leveldale used to turn things around-when thier cattle started looking like ayatollah trash   https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=4072635  Arsulu Masterplan-  Think hes in any of their big time pedigrees??? NOW READ HIS PEDIGREE-his dam was as down and durty as you could make one-3/4 sister to Arsulu Cools Dam-but a great one in her own right-Ad Pacer who had alot of good cattle from back in the day including Byland Dazzlers Dam I saw her in person-If you think you are going to make them wider with other performance cattle (that have the sos breeding and are just based upon statistics)-you have a very long road ahead-and are not paying attention to the "handfull of breeders" who knew that with thier cattle O0
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 03:18:04 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2019, 03:37:08 PM »
 Too much grow to be a steer?  A line of cattle where  females are growthier than their male counterparts???  Never heard of such.

 That heifer looks androgynous and huge boned to me- not what I would consider as thick.   Maybe I have different interpretation idk.  The thick Im talking about is still a proportionally configured animal.   One with shorter squarer head, deep jaw, wider top, as some rear base width.   A breeder you mention frequently at promised land cattle has a cow I believe shes out of a Saskvalley stampede daughter and sired by a fullblood Maine bull.  This cow is what I have in mind.    She still has a balanced functional phenotype like youd expect to see with fertile production cattle- but shes a much thicker version while still having a smooth fat cover.  As opposed to the globs of pone fat you see on these funky show cattle types.  Ill see if I can find a pic.


Masterplan and his progeny were busts.   A buddy of mine bought a Roan son from Leveldale  that had a big ant eater head on him and was very hard doing.   I saw Leveldale righteous (after buying a 7k heifer of his) and he was without question the worst bull Ive known of JsF using.  I do have a good daughter of his but shes out of an ultra refined Alliance 7125 cow.  I dont believe Ive seen any offspring out of righteous daughters in any of the JSF sales. 
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Offline Redwine Cattle

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2019, 04:20:51 PM »

Masterplan and his progeny were busts.   A buddy of mine bought a Roan son from Leveldale  that had a big ant eater head on him and was very hard doing.
 

Ant eater head....literally laughed out loud at that.
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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2019, 04:50:18 PM »
Terrible picture at badger 2 months ago-Is one was reserve to a full grown pud-shes full sib to the creole that won all over last year-second blue -NO SHE DOESNT NORMALLY STAND LIKE THAThad 2 full sib steers sell in Iowa-at a sale in November with other breeds for 6600-and 14000 The third Crimson tide is a really correct sound heifer to be that thick-AGAIN bad picture-again thats what this thread is about-the white heifer DUH is last-PS-she was sold to Inndiana to people that SHOW CATTLE AND WIN-(the androgenenous unthick cliches have me laughing really Ive been online and seen your cattle-if you arent looking for actual advice from real time cattle that exist on a basic farm-to make them "wider"- these cattle MILK-they arent skinny and hardoing they raise and wean heavy calves that are stout-that do not go to the sale barn-that people want to buy THEY ARE DIFFERENT IN TYPE NOW-LETS SEE YOURS) The white hiefer was sold for 14000-at 6 months-Who the f#%&()K cares about the price-his wife came down with cancer that was that. All 4 of these calves are from the same 3 year old cow pictured with her 1st daughter-at the Jr Nationals Optical illusion they are both the same size-OH SEE THE SHORTHORN STEER COUNTERPART BESIDE THEM? Hes part of the clan too-AND HE AINT NO PUD Hes an April there at the junior Nationals-is a full dib to the three year old cow So-theres a 3 year old cow-that has already produced 4 really good matings out of entirely different breeds of bulls and a very good first calf hirfer (her first calf) standing next to her-(Ive got other pictures that really show them but am not going to waste my time) I want to see the cattle you have produced that address this post-to the letter of the " kids" request since he doesnt want to answer anyone"s input Maybe its a ***** wussy game to draw some llrgit cattle on that arent like his so he can poo poo them in comparison to so called "performance cattle"-Ive seen alot of interesting cattle at Promised Land-and some of the shorthorn by fullbloods would really hit with performance bred cattle-so would his blue crosses- I think that the bull he had out of K KIM Gold Version: PLCC GOLDSTANDARD that was shown at the Montana big show was really good-being appendix out of a cool 20 20 Vision x range cow made him all the more cool to me-thats another example of the type that will change them in alot of ways-especially  when it comes to width from behind  and since his sire was a very good performance deal-hes yet another point you are missing-prove me wrong  with pictures of yours from behind Yes I realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder-and no animal is perfect but these cattle are NOTHING like yours so trying to equate them to that vision aint gonna stand on this thread-even if it is a petty game. And your observations dont mean sh*&&$T until you back them up with solid examples of your cattle that fit this thread(pop) O0
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 06:32:38 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline ROMAX

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2019, 04:56:28 PM »
Years ago someone posted a pasture pic of a shorthorn bull that was one of the most muscled up bull I have seen, I believe his name was American Muscle
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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2019, 05:17:48 PM »
I stopped in Ohio and saw American Muscle-he wasnt as extreme as the picture at all-but he was pretty stout-I was dissapointed when I got behind him He wasnt real wide great side profile-good natured too. The FREAK was Gizmos Image he was outrageous-lynnette Jane on here had a couple really thick stout cows out of him-but the owner was sort of a wierd guy and raised the semen to 150 a straw etc-dont think he had many takers LOL O0

Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2019, 06:48:10 PM »
Im just reading and watching this unfold. I asked a question. I dont have an opinion on my question. Thats why I asked the question lol. If you read the semen sales books on the angus, the new catch phrase seems to be base width. Seems to me these bulls are being promoted because angus cattle at becoming to frail. Look at the post Aussie put up discussing this.

Shorthorns have clearly lacked base width and mass in general for decades. Why else would Maines be brought in. I was just curious if there was any bulls that were outliers. But proven outliers. I read way too often a shorthorn calf was 95 plus pounds at birth and cant hit 600 at weaning. Thats a big red flag. Page after page of angus bulls that are calving ease with some grow to em. So many different types in the angus breed. Shorthorn gene pool is much smaller so we will have to combine some fire and ice matings if we want to get some curve bender type cattle being marketed.

Last two years I used a son of Wolf Ridge Red Commander. He was out of a JSF Reload cow. He did a really good job here. Made some nice calves. I needed some money so I sold him last December to GaryBob. Calves have really finished well in general. I kept a heifer out of him to breed on and Linnette Jane has two heifers out of the bull from last year. Its like Heath said earlier. Where do we go from here? You can breed the SULL cattle or you can try and breed something different.

I started this thread to just have folks throw out bulls they think could work. I certainly dont have any intentions to come on here and tell others my cattle are better than theirs. 😎
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Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2019, 07:53:32 PM »
Terrible picture at badger 2 months ago-Is one was reserve to a full grown pud-shes full sib to the creole that won all over last year-second blue -NO SHE DOESNT NORMALLY STAND LIKE THAThad 2 full sib steers sell in Iowa-at a sale in November with other breeds for 6600-and 14000 The third Crimson tide is a really correct sound heifer to be that thick-AGAIN bad picture-again thats what this thread is about-the white heifer DUH is last-PS-she was sold to Inndiana to people that SHOW CATTLE AND WIN-(the androgenenous unthick cliches have me laughing really Ive been online and seen your cattle-if you arent looking for actual advice from real time cattle that exist on a basic farm-to make them "wider"- these cattle MILK-they arent skinny and hardoing they raise and wean heavy calves that are stout-that do not go to the sale barn-that people want to buy THEY ARE DIFFERENT IN TYPE NOW-LETS SEE YOURS) The white hiefer was sold for 14000-at 6 months-Who the f#%&()K cares about the price-his wife came down with cancer that was that. All 4 of these calves are from the same 3 year old cow pictured with her 1st daughter-at the Jr Nationals Optical illusion they are both the same size-OH SEE THE SHORTHORN STEER COUNTERPART BESIDE THEM? Hes part of the clan too-AND HE AINT NO PUD Hes an April there at the junior Nationals-is a full dib to the three year old cow So-theres a 3 year old cow-that has already produced 4 really good matings out of entirely different breeds of bulls and a very good first calf hirfer (her first calf) standing next to her-(Ive got other pictures that really show them but am not going to waste my time) I want to see the cattle you have produced that address this post-to the letter of the " kids" request since he doesnt want to answer anyone"s input Maybe its a ***** wussy game to draw some llrgit cattle on that arent like his so he can poo poo them in comparison to so called "performance cattle"-Ive seen alot of interesting cattle at Promised Land-and some of the shorthorn by fullbloods would really hit with performance bred cattle-so would his blue crosses- I think that the bull he had out of K KIM Gold Version: PLCC GOLDSTANDARD that was shown at the Montana big show was really good-being appendix out of a cool 20 20 Vision x range cow made him all the more cool to me-thats another example of the type that will change them in alot of ways-especially  when it comes to width from behind  and since his sire was a very good performance deal-hes yet another point you are missing-prove me wrong  with pictures of yours from behind Yes I realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder-and no animal is perfect but these cattle are NOTHING like yours so trying to equate them to that vision aint gonna stand on this thread-even if it is a petty game. And your observations dont mean sh*&&$T until you back them up with solid examples of your cattle that fit this thread(pop) O0

This is one of your more bizarre post I've ever seen.  If you'll go back and READ my initial post on this page, you'll see how strange and unwarranted most of your comments here are:

Im with you in that Id certainly like to add some thickness to my cowherd in general...

Equally bizarre is how you keep referring to the OP as a kid.  You must have also missed:
Im glad you started this post.  When you asked me the other night, I was honestly stumped.

Do you really think I spend my evening talking to kids? The OP is a 40+ yr old man you're talking about. 

I'm not sure what it is "I'm to prove you wrong about?"  Again another bizarro comment.  Maybe the show steer type females address the OP's question but I find that, like I said previously, unfortunate, that these types are our only option??

Imagine if the question were about Angus bulls to add thickness-- Bulls that would come to my mind would be those like Ohlde's or one like Coleman Charlo. Bulls that are of the TYPE that cattleman still value. You know, bulls that look like male powerlifters as opposed to your go to: the butch dyke softball looking types.  But no -- not in Shorthorns.  In Shorthorns, if you want to thicken: as in develop more of a beef phenotype less dairy- you have the clubby show steer types and that's it? What a joke.  Surely this isn't so.

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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2019, 08:16:51 PM »
The cattle I shared all have real world performance and are not really clubby in terms of what they actually do everyday-and I think youd have a tuff time competing against any of the cattle in Iowa I showed on a commercial basis You dont have the foresight to think beyond your narrow cattle-so why should anyone waste anymore time making suggestions niether of you have any intention of doing anything but trying to belittle others who try and offer opinions that both of you asked for -Ive seen your cattle-Iowa has been in drauth for several years-it was 30 plus below  yesturday not including wind- THEY ARE JUST EXAMPLES of what the "KID" asked for-and until you come up with any concrete visual proof of YOUR cattle that you are basing as some kind of example to compare against these myriad examples I took the time to ad- and added in the naive and innocent expectations of trying to address a legitimate question then I would have to say start using Angus probably more kindred spirits than Shorthorn people anyway. but this thread was specifically about the 5 widest thickest Shorthorns any way-I think interms of example-you are making some pretty pompous broad statements about cattle that will overwhelm yours in that department INCLUDING BIRTHWTS (see bizare comment TONGUE AND CHEEK RE Kid)   O0
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 08:54:59 PM by mark tenenbaum »

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2019, 09:42:44 PM »
The cattle I shared all have real world performance and are not really clubby in terms of what they actually do everyday-and I think youd have a tuff time competing against any of the cattle in Iowa I showed on a commercial basis You dont have the foresight to think beyond your narrow cattle-so why should anyone waste anymore time making suggestions niether of you have any intention of doing anything but trying to belittle others who try and offer opinions that both of you asked for -Ive seen your cattle-Iowa has been in drauth for several years-it was 30 plus below  yesturday not including wind- THEY ARE JUST EXAMPLES of what the "KID" asked for-and until you come up with any concrete visual proof of YOUR cattle that you are basing as some kind of example to compare against these myriad examples I took the time to ad- and added in the naive and innocent expectations of trying to address a legitimate question then I would have to say start using Angus probably more kindred spitits than Shorthorn people anyway. but this thread was specifically about Shorthorns (see bizare comment TONGUE AND CHEEK RE Kid)   O0

not "really" clubby.   LOL  whatever "really" means.   I can't speak for the OP but I just added that I was hoping there were some beef bull options.  I included a picture of an Angus bull as a REFERENCE to what I was speaking to/describing in terms of "thickness."  There's nothing bizarre about that.  And competing against "cattle in Iowa!?!" Get real! Where do you come up with this stuff- you bring those big fuzzy eared types down and see how they handle Texas in August. 

I hope you've seen the cattle you speak to more than you claim to have seen mine- as outside of a facebook post or two- I've never even seen you much less a time when you were around my cows. 

The OP's question was legitimate.  My question was legitimate.  Anyone is welcome to continue posting clubby options. Perhaps that what the OP was looking for?  I'm just not interested in them-- I'm interested in beef bulls-  hopefully some similar to the REFERENCE sire I posted are out there.  If you know of any, please chime in .
   
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Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2019, 09:45:12 PM »
Im not really interested in clubby type stuff but if one is found to be useful in real world conditions then by all means post away. I was hoping to identify bulls either forgotten, underused or used wrongly that were wider based and put some ass on them. Im not posting to set somebody up. I am just trying to identify bulls outside the box if you will. Maybe a four or five year old bull thats really out produced himself. Youve promoted lots of bulls on here Mark. Most have fizzled out for one reason or another.

This was just a thread about brainstorming. Not triggering somebodys feelings.
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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2019, 10:05:29 PM »
Name the ones I have talked about that fizzeled and name the Shorthorn bulls you have been involved with that had ANY impact on the breed-hate to talk National or Louisville  champions Ive only been involved with 6 of those and bring your texas cattle up to southern kansas where my cows are in august-its hotter-no on second thought bring them now when its ten below zero-just dont get laughed out of the show ring-we do that on a national level along with weighing every calf and having real EPDS on the cattle-we have black crosses-heavens dont let friends cross breed or use cross bred bulls-we have friends across alot of breeds-we like farmers in general and grew up on a handshake-you clearly come from another generation. I suggest you take all the backtracking adjectives that you have just used to reinvent your thread in the last minute-and commit them to the algorthym down below-or basically state in your thread that you do not want anything but Angus and Native Shorthorn answers to your question or only those bloodlines specific to your interest and all others are unworthy of your consideration- O0

Offline kiblercattle

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2019, 10:11:25 PM »
A bull we used lightly but in hindsight we should have used more was gb daybreak express. He was a fairly easy calving bull that would really put some ass in them. Not the round clubby ass but one when you got behind them they stood with lots of width and top. He left some nice cows that stayed in good shape in our dry grass country.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2019, 10:22:29 PM »
Thank you kibler and I remember a few years ago you said something about him -he is still in use and was a very good bull-There is another LOW BW promotion bull by ALM Chiller out of a Daybreak cow due out in 2019 up in Wisconsin A lot of clubby breeders used him because he was an EZ calver-but he sure threw some good females and thick ones-had some Lincoln Red  back there in his dam-Ive posted on him before-Brockmueller was a really good guy and had thick no non sense cattle-something the pictures above us on this thread  are sadly missing at least the Shorthorns I see-the 2 Black ear cows are the only ones that arent bags of bones LOL

Offline wiseguy

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2019, 11:16:35 PM »
I think when you say top 5 power bulls in the breed this guy has to be in the discussion. Saskvalley Imperative 33X. Exceptional growth, WW and YW trait leader, and top 25% REA., He sires bulls that look like bulls, and females that look like cows. Out of 16 progeny in the ASA sire test he sired 2 primes, 13 choice, and 1 select. $136 BMI


 

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