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Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2019, 07:30:09 PM »
The second bull from England has a nice smooth side profile and appears to be pretty thick as in wide from behind-also has some muscle-I thought Uppermill used some Maine a while back which the older bull shows somewhat the way he is made and with his size O0

Offline GM

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2019, 09:38:10 PM »
This. Thread. Is. Fascinating. 

E6, I like the premise.  There have to be a lot of overlooked and long forgotten shorthorns who could be very useful.  Imagine the bulls born from 1980 - 2000 that didn’t have Rodeo Drive, Dreamboat, Ayatollah, Cunia, or Trump.  That narrows it down quick.  Here are a few that don’t have the influence of those bulls, who are not “native”, and who I have seen offspring that were very thick (although often times the freakishly thick ones were in show condition).  I’m not saying I’d recommend them, but I am saying I’ve experienced very thick offspring from them.  Most carry too much birth weight.

CC Cujo - born in ‘83, G9 son out of a Clark cow.  His cattle were big, birthweight and frame.  However, there were many on the moderate side who were super thick and very stylish.  Interestingly, his offspring competed in the frame era and the width era. 

C Cisco - born in ‘89, an Enticer son out of a majority Irish cow.  His offspring had legs but man some were super thick.  I didn’t have first hand experience with them, but I’m guessing they could eat a lot.  He shows up in Jakes Proud Jazz pedigree.  He was used at Cal Poly.

Elbee Leader - born in ‘92, very different pedigree - nearly all Elbee and Improver III going back four generations in his pedigree.  Seen many moderate, super thick offspring.

MSF Equity - born in ‘94, I believe a former national champ as things began to moderate.  Goes back to Enticer and some Irish over what appear to be straight Shorthorn cows.  His calves were noticeable thick in that era, and pretty.  Not sure why he fizzled but it could have been due to the rise of Trump and Doublestuff (maybe). 

Deerpark Improver 2nd - born in ‘74, obviously needs no introduction.  He sired some giants and was promoted as a big performance bull.  However, he also threw some thick ones raised on nothing but grass.  I recall the thickest bull calf I’ve ever seen at weaning being an Improver 2nd son out of an Impact 2 cow.  His hind quarter looked like a finished steer, his top line was super wide all the way, but like many Improver 2nd’s his back had a slight curve, he had a lot of sheath, some leather up front, and a big square head with horns.  But man he had an ass.  There were many similar offspring, but this dude took the cake.  I imagine what a set would look like nowadays not out of the old school dual type cows.  Problem would be birth weights.

I would guess there are many others that weren’t promoted or collected heavily because they didn’t fit with the type during the frame era, or couldn’t compete with the “overnight” thickness provided by the the Maine influenced Shorthorns.  Perhaps if the Shorthorn Association didn’t have the appendix program breeders would have been creative and used more thick beef Shorthorns to moderate out of the frame era.


« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 09:50:51 PM by GM »

Offline Hopster1000

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2019, 10:23:07 PM »
The second bull from England has a nice smooth side profile and appears to be pretty thick as in wide from behind-also has some muscle-I thought Uppermill used some Maine a while back which the older bull shows somewhat the way he is made and with his size O0

All the main breeders in the UK used Maine bulls widely when the herd book was first opened to them. It is very hard to find a 100% SH in the UK and Native are very rare.
The Dakota bull is bred from an Australian bull, Broughton Park Thunder, and would have approx 9% Maine through his Upsall dam.

Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2019, 10:44:34 PM »
I think it was a good thing-once the breeders toned them down some-That red bull is way cool

Offline knabe

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2019, 11:02:19 PM »
C Cisco - born in 89, an Enticer son out of a majority Irish cow.  His offspring had legs but man some were super thick.  I didnt have first hand experience with them, but Im guessing they could eat a lot.  He shows up in Jakes Proud Jazz pedigree.  He was used at Cal Poly.


seen them first hand.  doubt it but may have pictures.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2019, 07:09:56 AM »


Elbee Leader - born in 92, very different pedigree - nearly all Elbee and Improver III going back four generations in his pedigree.  Seen many moderate, super thick offspring.

I saw someone selling 50 units for $50 each on Facebook the other day.  He has always been a bull I was interested in but at the typically advertised price of $100/unit Ive never tried him.

This is what I think of as the type to add thickness.   It doesnt really do me a lot of good if it takes an animal till theyre four or five years old to start packing on mass. Most calves are on the rail at 15 months oso how one develops after that is kind of a moot point.
Friends dont let friends use crossbred bulls

Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2019, 09:20:08 AM »
Thats why they need to hit the ground with the parts to grow into themselves-in order to have any stoutness-both parents also need to be stout or1 very close and a changer for a sire. Its at least as hard to get thick calf out of a frail cow as to make a sound one from one that isnt .Last time I went to Elbee Lee Bigham said Wymore was one of the better bulls he produced along with Gizmos Image-thickest non available non maine-clubby bull there was. Said Wymore came with a little more performance  and just more to him than Gizmo who was his sire. Used alot on heifers in one small heard-in backwoods Wymore Nebraska where computers and indoor plumbing are starting to become popular-So no flourishing studies and epds-hes as ez calving as Gizmo-like almost all of his sons-Will Lane on here used one called Throwback-the calves were not throwaways at all.One son Mr Colt won a bunch of shows because thats what his kids do-and is also a heifer bull-we are using him.-Bred to a whole herd reporting female-the EPDS would magically reappear on Wymore.Seen pictures of some of his calves.They have the look and the hip and are as wide as most any Shorthorns to come so easily Hes $15 a straw on SEKO0
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 11:22:06 AM by mark tenenbaum »

Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2019, 09:13:12 PM »

[/quote]
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 09:02:11 AM by mark tenenbaum »

Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2019, 09:14:02 PM »

[/quote]
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 09:03:14 AM by mark tenenbaum »

Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2019, 09:23:40 PM »
The second bull from England has a nice smooth side profile and appears to be pretty thick as in wide from behind-also has some muscle-I thought Uppermill used some Maine a while back which the older bull shows somewhat the way he is made and with his size O0

All the main breeders in the UK used Maine bulls widely when the herd book was first opened to them. It is very hard to find a 100% SH in the UK and Native are very rare.
The Dakota bull is bred from an Australian bull, Broughton Park Thunder, and would have approx 9% Maine through his Upsall dam.   ///// There are some native Whitebreds that I am pretty impressed with and understand they are close to extinction-Have you seen any of these cattle? These pictures are for you or anyone from the Isles to comment upon if you would-because you may have seen them etc
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 09:26:38 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline mbigelow

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2019, 11:43:29 PM »
The RB Eagle line (eagle 148,255,239,etc..)has some muscle but are inconsistent in quality in my experience but may work for you. They did produce some good cattle.
Alta cedar signature 119n or perfect storm would both add muscle.
Waukaru used IWF MAGIC and made Copperfield both very thick.
Older bull GS touche was real thick also
A bull that added base width but not necessarily muscle was nps Durango. My issue with him was bad attitude in most calves
Lc diamond cutter was decent also
Pa do boxer was good so was his son Armstrong major league, and his son Armstrong heavy hitter.
Talk with Jay benham (stone springs shorthorns) about PaDo Downtown Ave.


Mark T. Do you remember the bull super sport and how had him?? I remember him being fairly thick. 
Thickest bull but would never use him or recommend him is Mr. V8 Bonfire.
I always liked the look of Talladega but never tried him because I like my cows.
I will add more if I think of them.

Offline Dale

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2019, 07:27:12 AM »
TF Super Sport,  3787293, this one?  Does this make me a Mark T. wannabe?

Online mark tenenbaum

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2019, 09:00:43 AM »
TF Super Sport,  3787293, this one?  Does this make me a Mark T. wannabe?///Careful what you wish for LOL -Thats Truckenbroads Polled Dividend who I think was Red-There was also another Roan Supersport-That was sired by Steermaker and was supposed to be CE too-That may be him.I thought Wayne Temple had semen at one time but I gave up trying to get in touch with him. I saw pictures of some mature cows on a dispersion in South Dakota or somewhere and they were real stout. GS Touche was one of the first oldschool clubby bulls from Sumptions in SD who were in clubby Shorthorns since probably the 60s-real pioneers like Barkhurst in Wyoming and Connels in Northern Ill.-He was a beasty freaky looking dude-so were his calves-Walter Dickson had the Carly female Gargans brother has a mainly black  daughter of the Carly that looks just like her-, Olson had a granddaughter that had a  daughter by Perfect Timing that looked alot like him-The Westrige farm in ND had a grandson who is in the background of JSF Maccoy-They all had that look-Touche was Fullblood mainexDivedends Impact x NDSU breeding-and probably other maine. Id find somewhere to use him if there were any semen. The Magics were a real thick bunch-alot of people thought that Strathor Irish Magic had Maine in him-The breeder of his sire-Irish Sweepstakes did mention a fullblood maine cow from Northern Ill, I never got to see many Diamond Cutters-but theres a picture of a female out of probably a Double Stuff cow that was very impressive JMO  from Zia or something. Did you get some calves from him? O0
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 09:25:59 AM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline kiblercattle

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #73 on: February 03, 2019, 10:40:35 AM »
Alta cedar signature 119 will add thickness for sure but we had fertility problems with his daughters. With our experience I would stay away from him.

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: Top 5 thickest shorthorn bulls available.
« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2019, 11:05:02 AM »
Scrolled through 80-90 head here and these jump out at me...
Navajo x line bred Durango is the biggest top and widest base even as an old cow.
Imagine 65x daughter that's a close second in a more compact package.
TM Gus sired big tops with almost clubby level rears.
Super Flag x Patent is monster topped as a yearling.

Lord Belmore and Dividend each put a good sized top in the bull pen. Yukon put one in there as well if you're willing to use a newer FB Maine papered as 3/4 short.

All of the above thickness can be wiped out with a single generation of Red Angus, which most of my commercial cows have. Yet, they are moving into a good sized chunk of the commercial market.

 

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