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Offline aj

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 11:32:18 AM »
As I understand it.........marbling and maternal will fit together nicely. Whereas extreme muscle and growth is antagonistic with strong maternal economically important traits
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Offline phillse

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 11:50:21 AM »
On top of this, for whatever reason, IGS has the shorthorn breed buried in a hole when compared to the other breeds. A suggestion that would address this issue has been brought up to the powers that be, but the potential results are feared.

How do we address the issue of the ISG hole for Shorthorns?
Isn't ISG basically Simmental leading the way with other breeds collaborating?

Would it help if people put Shorthorn Bulls in as Foundation animals in the Simmental database and turned in data to Simmental.

Would it help to put Simmental bulls in the Shorthorn database as Foundation animals with data collected and turned in to Shorthorn.

How would one go about putting in an AI Sire from an AI Stud of another breed that they do not personally own into the Shorthorn database?

How would one go about putting in an AI Sire from an AI Stud from Shorthorn that they do not personally own into the Simmental database?

I know with the small numbers I have (roughly 10-15 Shorthorn females and 10-15 Simmental females) that it would not make much of a dent in the data.  The question is would it help enough to make a difference?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 12:02:12 PM by phillse »
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Offline phillse

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 11:56:11 AM »



As I understand it.........marbling and maternal will fit together nicely. Whereas extreme muscle and growth is antagonistic with strong maternal economically important traits
That is the reason I used the terms adequate growth and carcass.  In my opinion, maternal traits should be first and foremost but the resulting calves must still have reasonable or adequate  growth, muscle, and carcass traits to be commercially viable even in a crossbreeding situation.
I personally think we need to focus on being option 2, maternal cattle with adequate growth and show evidence of longevity, high fertility, with acceptable growth and carcass traits.  If you will focus on being "the great optimizer"
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Offline aj

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2019, 12:55:45 PM »
I agree. I wasn't being critical.
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Offline wiseguy

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2019, 01:11:51 PM »
On top of this, for whatever reason, IGS has the shorthorn breed buried in a hole when compared to the other breeds. A suggestion that would address this issue has been brought up to the powers that be, but the potential results are feared.

How do we address the issue of the ISG hole for Shorthorns?
Isn't ISG basically Simmental leading the way with other breeds collaborating?

Would it help if people put Shorthorn Bulls in as Foundation animals in the Simmental database and turned in data to Simmental.

Would it help to put Simmental bulls in the Shorthorn database as Foundation animals with data collected and turned in to Shorthorn.

How would one go about putting in an AI Sire from an AI Stud of another breed that they do not personally own into the Shorthorn database?

How would one go about putting in an AI Sire from an AI Stud from Shorthorn that they do not personally own into the Simmental database?

I know with the small numbers I have (roughly 10-15 Shorthorn females and 10-15 Simmental females) that it would not make much of a dent in the data.  The question is would it help enough to make a difference?

Attached you will find Saskvalley Imperative's numbers in the IGS system. This run must be a little old as his EPDs are not up to date. I believe that all the sires from the sire test have been put in the IGS system. One thing I have pushed for is the implementation of the API index in shorthorns. Nothing makes more sense to me than an All Purpose Index. This however includes Stayability as the most important value and people have reservations about this figure. I for one think that the most valuable trait available to use is knowing what to expect for cow longevity.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 01:13:33 PM by wiseguy »

Offline huntaway

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2019, 01:26:45 PM »
On top of this, for whatever reason, IGS has the shorthorn breed buried in a hole when compared to the other breeds. A suggestion that would address this issue has been brought up to the powers that be, but the potential results are feared.

How do we address the issue of the ISG hole for Shorthorns?
Isn't ISG basically Simmental leading the way with other breeds collaborating?

Would it help if people put Shorthorn Bulls in as Foundation animals in the Simmental database and turned in data to Simmental.

Would it help to put Simmental bulls in the Shorthorn database as Foundation animals with data collected and turned in to Shorthorn.

How would one go about putting in an AI Sire from an AI Stud of another breed that they do not personally own into the Shorthorn database?

How would one go about putting in an AI Sire from an AI Stud from Shorthorn that they do not personally own into the Simmental database?

I know with the small numbers I have (roughly 10-15 Shorthorn females and 10-15 Simmental females) that it would not make much of a dent in the data.  The question is would it help enough to make a difference?

Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

Offline phillse

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2019, 01:38:35 PM »
I agree. I wasn't being critical.

I did not think you were being critical.  In fact you are correct that for the most part terminal traits and maternal do not really mix. 

In truth, if someone claims cattle line "xyz" can do it all they have a line that really does nothing well.  That being said there has to be acceptable levels of performance that can then be line crossed or crossbred to produce desired market terminal animals.
Wisdom and Patience are both virtues.  However, they are attained only by failures, tests and trials.

Online Medium Rare

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2019, 08:42:39 PM »
Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

How far out is this?

I've been waiting to see what happens to Kookaburra's numbers after hundreds of his progeny scans hit the IGS system.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2019, 09:22:28 PM »
Thats the kind of real world testing that needs to get out-I hate to say It-I think there would be alot more of credibility with everyday commercial people if you guys could get the numbers out rather than an Association -And PS-I saw the ad on  your 2 young sale bull calves coming up-I dont rant on Canadian genetics much-but they are WAY GOOD-Looked em up-JMO some of the cattle like Sonny and CSF Optimizer have to add to my version of eye candy-BUT THAT BULL SASKVALLEY CHALLENGER sure must be a changer BW wise along with being thick-even though his EPDS do not reflect that yet. Have the ones you have had all been low BW like  the two I"m writing about? O0

Offline coyote

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2019, 10:10:16 PM »
Quote
Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

It sure will be interesting. I have looked around a bit on the Australian Shorthorn EBV's web site. I found a bull that was used a bit in North America with over 250 offspring recorded and his BW epd is 4.2 with an accuracy of 77% which would mean his calves are heavier than the ave. Shorthorn bull. In Australia he had 135 offspring and his EBV is 2.3 with an accuracy of 95% which is lighter than the ave Shorthorn bull showing he is calving ease.
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Offline phillse

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Wisdom and Patience are both virtues.  However, they are attained only by failures, tests and trials.

Offline wiseguy

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2019, 11:26:33 AM »
Thats the kind of real world testing that needs to get out-I hate to say It-I think there would be alot more of credibility with everyday commercial people if you guys could get the numbers out rather than an Association -And PS-I saw the ad on  your 2 young sale bull calves coming up-I dont rant on Canadian genetics much-but they are WAY GOOD-Looked em up-JMO some of the cattle like Sonny and CSF Optimizer have to add to my version of eye candy-BUT THAT BULL SASKVALLEY CHALLENGER sure must be a changer BW wise along with being thick-even though his EPDS do not reflect that yet. Have the ones you have had all been low BW like  the two I"m writing about? O0

Thanks Mark. Challenger has done a great job thus far. He does seem to be moderating BW, while not giving up much in terms of performance. I agree that with time his EPDs will adjust to fall more in line with what we are experiencing. I need to send in his DNA to get genomic epds. He was slated to go in this years sire test, but when I called Matt to enter him they already had all the slots full. I appreciate the kind words on the sale bulls. Maybe I'll start a thread on them once we are done picturing this weekend.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2019, 07:57:38 PM »
I"d sure like to see them from behind-Stevie Wonder could see the quality in those calves-If you can created a package like them that is CE retains  the look:along with at least the carcass quality of the big bull ;you would have something there. With a combo that alot of people could use-Someone with the wherewithall-needs to flush one of Wernings best Red Simm cows to a bull along the lines of your younger ones-And come up with one that is showy enough to sire calves for people as a plus. The plus bulls Ive seen lately that are showing dont show me a whole lot:I think people would use a really good one:if it had all the goods-I think the Same thing about the two Commodity sons of Dales and Docs-Re potential uses.What I do not have is an in depth knowledge of where simms actually are in terms of the important traits O0

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2019, 01:15:30 PM »
Quote
Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

It sure will be interesting. I have looked around a bit on the Australian Shorthorn EBV's web site. I found a bull that was used a bit in North America with over 250 offspring recorded and his BW epd is 4.2 with an accuracy of 77% which would mean his calves are heavier than the ave. Shorthorn bull. In Australia he had 135 offspring and his EBV is 2.3 with an accuracy of 95% which is lighter than the ave Shorthorn bull showing he is calving ease.

Being lighter than the average Australia shorthorn bull certainly doesnt equate to being calving ease.   

This highlights why knowing what breed average is before looking at epds is so important.
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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2019, 04:45:57 PM »
RE Gardiner Angus x Shorthorn feedlot results.Do an article of your own in one of the well read MAGS Midwestern farmer or whatever-The carcass results dont lie-and thats the end result the true end users (the ones that eat the beef or serve it in thier establishments) are looking for. You are plenty qualified: and it really doesnt take a mind boogling array of mathematical juxtaposistions-x number of steers sird by x y z Shorthorn bulls on frmales sired by  Pine Drive Big Sky (just kidding) and xyz a bc d Angus sires as a typical cross section gained x amount and graded this many Choice Prime select etc-The highest number in the History of cattle or whatever you can draw as a true comparison to similar tests O0
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 05:02:02 PM by mark tenenbaum »

 

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