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Offline huntaway

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2019, 01:51:03 AM »
Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

How far out is this?

I've been waiting to see what happens to Kookaburra's numbers after hundreds of his progeny scans hit the IGS system.

I'm not sure. I know that they did a mock run and there was some movement in the ranking of bulls. The breeder i talked to felt bulls with more American influence were benefited more but they must have been happy enough to decide to go that way. I think the ability to utilise DNA was the main advantage and what they were not offered through ABRI

The main test will be if you can select a trait and by using high ranking sires for that trait move your herd in that direction. The ABRI EBV's have shown to be able to do this in a number of progeny tests.

Offline huntaway

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2019, 02:28:35 AM »
Quote
Will be interesting how the epd's adjust when all the Australian data is added to the system. The are alot of well recorded large herds that have been carcass scanning a high percent of heifers and bulls for a long time and i believe would intend to do alot of DNA testing. Not sure if the durham project data would be used but that would be very valuable if it did.

It sure will be interesting. I have looked around a bit on the Australian Shorthorn EBV's web site. I found a bull that was used a bit in North America with over 250 offspring recorded and his BW epd is 4.2 with an accuracy of 77% which would mean his calves are heavier than the ave. Shorthorn bull. In Australia he had 135 offspring and his EBV is 2.3 with an accuracy of 95% which is lighter than the ave Shorthorn bull showing he is calving ease.
I have seen this and the reverse a number of times. I dont think they have the focus on bwt that North America do so it wouldn't surprise me if their average birthweight was higher.

Offline beebe

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2019, 09:50:36 PM »
What a shame they did not do a shear force test while they were collecting data.

Offline knabe

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2019, 11:28:51 PM »
What a shame they did not do a shear force test while they were collecting data.


cost. a 1" square or close to that is taken out of a cooked piece of meat.  thats probably why.


thats why people are working on other techniques.

Offline beebe

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2019, 11:45:27 PM »
I am working with Dr. Allen Williams ultra sound that measures tenderness.  My Shorthorn cows did extremely well compared to the rest of my cows.  I suggested it to the commercial acceptance committee but there seems to be little interest.  If they would ultra sound them before they harvested them and did the shear force test, they would know if it was accurate.  If it is then they could know while an animal is still alive.  That would be a real asset in breeding choices.

Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2019, 06:26:11 AM »
Who is on this commercial acceptance committee ?

Its clear to me the higher ups in the shorthorn breed dont want commercial acceptance. They want to keep doing what theyre doing. A small group of breeders control the direction of the whole breed. What a joke.
Cleveland Browns...... super bowl champs 2019. Heard it here first. And charcuterie is the next hot food trend with the hipsters.

Offline Boreal

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2019, 08:13:45 AM »
I am working with Dr. Allen Williams ultra sound that measures tenderness.  My Shorthorn cows did extremely well compared to the rest of my cows.  I suggested it to the commercial acceptance committee but there seems to be little interest.  If they would ultra sound them before they harvested them and did the shear force test, they would know if it was accurate.  If it is then they could know while an animal is still alive.  That would be a real asset in breeding choices.

Its certainly an interesting exercise, and would perhaps be useful to know which animals exhibit a greater degree of tenderness - as it is obviously strongly linked to profitability of slaughtered cattle. Again though, most ranchers profit from live cattle and tenderness appears (with the limited research done) to be a terminal trait inversely correlated with skeletal maturity. Would selecting for tenderness inadvertently select for later maturing (less fertile) cattle? If tender beef is the goal, above all else, why not use a breed like Piedmontese in a rota-terminal system?

Offline knabe

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2019, 08:32:45 AM »
how does anyone in the industry profit from tenderness.


why are later maturing less fertile. don't they just mature later?


the first producers who combine wagyu, pied's, and something else that is homo polled, homo myostain, "homo" marbling, homo black, solid patterned will probably rule the day.


no need for "research" of tiny incrmental gains that no dna test allows for the potential rapid progress of the above for a lot less wasted time and effort will probably rule the day.


the above is already underway.

Offline Boreal

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2019, 08:55:47 AM »
how does anyone in the industry profit from tenderness.


You answered your question: the first producers who combine wagyu, pied's, and something else that is homo polled, homo myostain, "homo" marbling, homo black, solid patterned will probably rule the day.

why are later maturing less fertile. don't they just mature later?

If you wanna breed heifers at 2 you could use that argument. Otherwise early maturing = more likely to breed first cycle = more likely to calve at 2 = more likely to rebreed.




no need for "research" of tiny incrmental gains that no dna test allows for the potential rapid progress of the above for a lot less wasted time and effort will probably rule the day.

You may be right here but sounds pretty snake-oily to me.




Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2019, 10:01:41 AM »
how does anyone in the industry profit from tenderness.


why are later maturing less fertile. don't they just mature later?


the first producers who combine wagyu, pied's, and something else that is homo polled, homo myostain, "homo" marbling, homo black, solid patterned will probably rule the day.


no need for "research" of tiny incrmental gains that no dna test allows for the potential rapid progress of the above for a lot less wasted time and effort will probably rule the day.


the above is already underway.

How does one profit? In my world, a more tender product equals happier customers which lead to more customers. Giving me more opportunities to avoid the sale barn. Locally produced food is hot right now. We just signed on to a farmers market to sell beef as well as pork. A nice tender cut of meat is a great way for return customers. If I can promote the shorthorn breed in any favorable light that is legit, its an additional win. In order to find a niche, your product has to stand out. Tenderness is above all else critical to a good eating experience
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 10:06:46 AM by E6 Durhams »
Cleveland Browns...... super bowl champs 2019. Heard it here first. And charcuterie is the next hot food trend with the hipsters.

Offline beebe

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2019, 10:51:46 AM »
how does anyone in the industry profit from tenderness.


why are later maturing less fertile. don't they just mature later?


the first producers who combine wagyu, pied's, and something else that is homo polled, homo myostain, "homo" marbling, homo black, solid patterned will probably rule the day.


no need for "research" of tiny incrmental gains that no dna test allows for the potential rapid progress of the above for a lot less wasted time and effort will probably rule the day.


the above is already underway.
I sell grass fed beef, tenderness is more important to my customers than marbling.  I have never had a comment on the marbling, I very often get comments on the tenderness.  If a steak is tough I won't have a good eating experience no matter what the marbling.

Offline beebe

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2019, 10:56:30 AM »
Who is on this commercial acceptance committee ?

Its clear to me the higher ups in the shorthorn breed dont want commercial acceptance. They want to keep doing what theyre doing. A small group of breeders control the direction of the whole breed. What a joke.

I don't remember everyone on it, Rick Osterday chaired it.  There were names that I recognized and names I did not.

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2019, 10:56:57 AM »
Who is on this commercial acceptance committee ?

Its clear to me the higher ups in the shorthorn breed dont want commercial acceptance. They want to keep doing what theyre doing. A small group of breeders control the direction of the whole breed. What a joke.

Assuming the website is up to date it's Rick Osterday, Lee Miller, Ed Kruse, & Matt Woolfolk.

I sit through one one of the committee conference calls quite a while back, but I forget which committee it actually was. There was a lot of ideas discussed from some highly respected sources as well as relatively unknown breeders. It wasn't long after that a positive change was implemented based on input from breeders who were on that call. I can't think of a single name on the call that I'd consider to be a part of the small group I assume you refer to.

Have you checked out the current BOD or spoke with any of them one on one? I think you might find their conversations interesting. Even the ones who make their money selling halter animals have commercial acceptance on their minds and want the system set up for those who concentrate solely on commercial animals to be able to succeed.

Recent Facebook conversations make it pretty clear some of the commercial breeders are very ok with doing nothing and bitching form the sidelines instead of getting educated and doing what they can. I'm to the point that any commercial breeder who is not turning in data beyond bw might as well be a fly on the wall. I have many issues with many things, but complaining without even basic data participation does no one any good.

Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2019, 11:40:37 AM »
Who is on this commercial acceptance committee ?

Its clear to me the higher ups in the shorthorn breed dont want commercial acceptance. They want to keep doing what theyre doing. A small group of breeders control the direction of the whole breed. What a joke.

Assuming the website is up to date it's Rick Osterday, Lee Miller, Ed Kruse, & Matt Woolfolk.

I sit through one one of the committee conference calls quite a while back, but I forget which committee it actually was. There was a lot of ideas discussed from some highly respected sources as well as relatively unknown breeders. It wasn't long after that a positive change was implemented based on input from breeders who were on that call. I can't think of a single name on the call that I'd consider to be a part of the small group I assume you refer to.

Have you checked out the current BOD or spoke with any of them one on one? I think you might find their conversations interesting. Even the ones who make their money selling halter animals have commercial acceptance on their minds and want the system set up for those who concentrate solely on commercial animals to be able to succeed.

Recent Facebook conversations make it pretty clear some of the commercial breeders are very ok with doing nothing and bitching form the sidelines instead of getting educated and doing what they can. I'm to the point that any commercial breeder who is not turning in data beyond bw might as well be a fly on the wall. I have many issues with many things, but complaining without even basic data participation does no one any good.

Im not on FB and now that I see Lee Millers name on the committee I have to assume there is something being done. Lee is as good of a person as Ive ever met in this business. I dont know the others but I know for a fact Lee wants this breed to grow and improve. It still is frustrating to have a disconnect or a perceived disconnect between members and directors.

I was referring earlier to the higher ups being the ones who ran Bolze out.None of those mentioned above are the ones who did this.  Thats where the disconnect began though. Bolze was going to do the breed a lot of good in my opinion. . I have not called any BODs nor have I called the ASA. Ive spoke with others who have tried to and gotten nowhere. I also just started registering cattle again and I submitted more than just a BW. If the butcher we use had a freakin live scale Id submit the weights at slaughter as well. Maybe Ill buy me a scale soon to take those other measurements needed. Like cow weights and all that.
Cleveland Browns...... super bowl champs 2019. Heard it here first. And charcuterie is the next hot food trend with the hipsters.

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: University of Illinois Sire Test
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2019, 02:02:51 PM »

In my world, a more tender product equals happier customers which lead to more customers.
In order to find a niche, your product has to stand out.
Tenderness is above all else critical to a good eating experience
[/quote]

PERFECT!
PERFECT!

Shorthorn must to got to origin.
A maternal breed with great meat quality.
A breed that can insert docility and milking hability, being an usefull breed for F1 producers. But, also with a potential - not extreme potential - for weight gain and carcass shape.....but, the point is TENDERNESS.

Here were I live we love a meat wit a good fat cover and now, marbling is the word. I think that marbling is being so much superestimated, the point is tenderness.

Marbled meat is great for barbecue, for some special kind of kitchen, but the daily meat must to be TENDER!

So, I ask you all....what is your choice, a marbled non tender meat, or a tender no so marbled one?

 

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