weaning weight

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jnm

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I have read several posts about "your cows show raise a calf that weans at 60% of the cows weight". ( a 1200 pounf cow = a 700 lb calf) Are you usually making this? I'm not and wondered if my cows are "bad" or if it is a unrealistic goal.
 

kanshow

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Are you using an adjusted 205 day weaning weight?   You really need to because there are so many variables.  If you are weaning at 4 months, there is no way the calf is going to be 60% of the cow's weight, if you use actual weight.   
 

aj

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Not very many people weigh there cows to start with. Then condition of cow would make a difference also(could make cows weight vary 200#'s). As Kanshow mentioned weaning date. I've seen guys wean 11 month calves off cows on corntalks before. I think the main thing we need to get away from the 1800# cow weaning that 600# calf anyway! Usually the cows are of later maturing type but they do have more salvage value.
 

Bawndoh

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Yeah, you dont see too many of those 1800+ pound cows weaning off 1000-1200 lb calves.  That would be 60-70%.  The ones who own those big cows insist they are "efficient", but they have yet to proove it to me.  There are a lot of 1400lb cows that can wean off 800lb.
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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For me it's more about the percent of income that the cow produces not the percent of her body weight that she weans off. If she consistantly generates 3000 to 5000+ dollars a year for me I don't care what she weighs. Other than heifers, I doubt that I have a cow that weighs less than 1600#s in their working cloths. Everybody talks about deep ribbed cattle with a ton of guts and tremendous capacity but I haven't found many of those in a 12 to 13 hundred pound class. One of my doner cows is a 6.2 frame score cow that weighs in at a little over a ton in her working cloths. She has not had any grain since her show heifer days, but she has generated a little over $40,000 for us without any promotion to speak of. She is just the right size for me! RW
 

Show Heifer

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Your cows SHOULD wean off 60% of weight.  Doesn't mean you can't have a cow that makes you money that doesn't. Thats called "show cattle", or hair balls!! :)
I have 1100 to 1500 cows that will wean off 60%. But not show genetics, and for the most part, not purebred.
What bloodlines is your donor RW? I haven't seen that many RA that will weigh a ton at 6.2 frame!!!
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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She is primarily Bodacious and Duke bred. Not much day light between the ground and her belly.
 

Show Heifer

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Is she a reg purebred?? That is a very interesting pedigree! How old is she?
 

Show Heifer

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Is her thickness and rib shape due to Bodacious or Duke....I am not familiar with the RA breed! Might be a good bloodline to cross with!
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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I think it is a combination of the two genetic lines. Piepers have also had a lot of success with similar genetic combinations. Several of my show steer buddies want me to flush her clubbie but I don't want a bunch of heifers out of her and Heat Wave (or who ever) left around here after they pick through the steers and so far none have wanted to buy the whole flush and gamble on the outcome. Truthfully she is worth more to me dollar wise flushed straight RA anyway. RW
 

Show Heifer

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Have you considered flushing her to a clean shortie? With her rib and depth, that might have some real potential....
Might also consider Hannibal. What do you think of the "new" hot bulls Mulberry and High Capacity (I think from northern state?)?  have you flushed to either of them??  Thought they might be fun to cross with, but the one bull is from Canada and not sure if we can get him in the states.
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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Show Heifer said:
Have you considered flushing her to a clean shortie? With her rib and depth, that might have some real potential....
Might also consider Hannibal. What do you think of the "new" hot bulls Mulberry and High Capacity (I think from northern state?)?  have you flushed to either of them??  Thought they might be fun to cross with, but the one bull is from Canada and not sure if we can get him in the states.

I will likely flush to Mulberry this time, I really like the looks of his calves that I am getting and have seen of others. I won't be using High Capacity (from UBAR in MT)- I've been around enough of them that were lacking in disposition qualities to use him. IMHO Mulberry will likely outproduce him in the long run for the type of cattle that I like. As far as the Short Horn flush - I might consider selling the flush to some one but I don't really need a bunch of half bloods here to keep seperate.
 

Doc

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ROAD WARRIOR said:
As far as the Short Horn flush - I might consider selling the flush to some one but I don't really need a bunch of half bloods here to keep seperate.

This brings up a question I've had for a while. A bunch of the Shortie breeders seem to have jumped on this Durham Red program whole heartedly. The question I have is , What is the general concensus of RA breeders about this ? I mean we sure seem to be buying a lot of RA semen, bulls & cows. Do RA breeders see this as a great marketing opportunity to sell or are they reciprocating and buying some of our genetics? I mean I can just about count on one hand the number of Shorties sold to RA breeders , that I've heard about. I really would like to know? ;D
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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I don't see many Purebred RA breeders going that direction. The major percentage of RA breeders are geared for producing bulls for the commercial cattle market. In comparison to our black hided cousins, we are a small (though rapidly growing) genetic pool. Interest in the RA cattle is at an all time high and truthfully until the supply outgrows the demand I don't think that there will be alot of breeders expanding into the Duram Red program. I know of a few that are trying a little, but they are really looking for show steers not bulls or females. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Duram Red program started to make the S H cross cattle more commercialy accepted? I may be clear off base on that but someone explained that to me one time. What are your thoughts Doc?
 

Doc

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ROAD WARRIOR said:
I don't see many Purebred RA breeders going that direction. The major percentage of RA breeders are geared for producing bulls for the commercial cattle market. In comparison to our black hided cousins, we are a small (though rapidly growing) genetic pool. Interest in the RA cattle is at an all time high and truthfully until the supply outgrows the demand I don't think that there will be alot of breeders expanding into the Duram Red program. I know of a few that are trying a little, but they are really looking for show steers not bulls or females. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Duram Red program started to make the S H cross cattle more commercialy accepted? I may be clear off base on that but someone explained that to me one time. What are your thoughts Doc?

RW, I think you are correct about the reason behind the DR program. Now I don't want to offend any RA breeders , but in my part of the country if you want to be commercially accepted then , right or wrong they need to be black hided. Not even solid red calves (which you're not guaranteed with a RA bull) brings what a black hide does. Now I'm just a small breeder , but if I'm going to produce a crossbred calf for the Shorthorn Plus program then I'm going to try to produce that blue roan that is going to bring a premium not just another red or roan crossbred. Like I said nothing personal just a business decision. JMHO.
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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Doc - I have watched the trend for the last 10 years in the black vs red hide issue. It started west of the Missouri river. 10 years ago bull customers of mine in central NE were selling their commercial feeders for the same if not more money than the blacks while here at home there was a 2 to 5 cent difference per pound. Today in my area there is not much difference with quality red calves topping the market from time to time. I don't think the trend has crossed East of the Mississippi river yet but I think it will. Truthfully, the whole black hide thing has been a masterful program laid out by the angus assn. It has enabled people that don't really know cattle to be order buyers for the fact that the mind set was - if they're black they're good. This also explains why so many breeds went black in the last several years when genetically there was no black gene to be found in the purebred animals DNA. In todays commercial market a black hide could be anything - holstein, angus, simmental, gelbvieh, saler, etc, etc. or a combination of any or all of them. I think that this is part of the reason that the color gap is narrowing. A black hide only guarentees that the animal has the domminant black hair gene somewhere in its ancestry. RW
 

Doc

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  RW, I don't disagree with you at all on your thoughts. And like you said the Angus Assoc. has done an OUTSTANDING job of marketing. When you go to a restaurant or store & hear someone ask for certified  Angus beef & these same people think if a cow has horns it's a bull & if it don't then it's a cow, well then like I said the Angus people have done a great job marketing.
 

aj

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I think the the red angus breed is such a wonderfull story. They had a mandatory performance reporting from day one. They selected cattle by data and not the showring. I don't think they have hardly been much of a showring deal till lately. I think the Shorthorn-Red Angus composite is wonderfull. It combines the best of two worlds. Since they are a f1.....consistency on the next cross is in question. I do think that that(because the durham red deal has mandatory reporting also) that some awfull good cattle could be developed. It will take the right kind of selection pressure and time. I guess they are the wrong color but I think people are beginning to question the value of color. jmo  :)
 

itk

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IMO the DR program is a joke and like all F1 programs only hurts breed identity over the long haul. I have only talked to one RA breeder who has heard of the program. The only people making money on the program are the RA breeders who are selling semen to shorthorn breeders.
 
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