Weight gain ?????

shortdawg · Dec 7, 2008

What would you do to make a 1020 lb steer gain 280 lbs in 73 days? I realize we may not reach that weight but he needs to weigh at least 1250 or gain 230 lbs. I plan to implant him next week. He eats 25 lbs./day and is on free choice high quality hay. Any comments appreciated.

Another question is who has experience with the " Tank " product ? What were your results ?

ROAD WARRIOR · Dec 8, 2008

How much filler is in your feed (cotton seed hulls, beet pulp,etc.)? I would back any fillers out over the course of a week (assuming 25# is all he will consume). And also limit his hay intake which may increase the amount of feed he eats. You can also introduce some cooked corn or barley into your feed ration, you may also want to add some golden flo or similar oil product as well. As always changes in the ingrediants needs to be done gradually so he doesn't go off feed. I'm assuming the "tank" product you're referring to is Full Tank. I have used it for a couple of years. I wouldn't introduce it into the ration until 2 weeks before your show as it is a "filler" product and not a weight gain product, it will add some depth and volume to your calf as it expands several times its size when it contacts moisture. Good Luck! RW

TJ · Dec 8, 2008

shortdawg said:
What would you do to make a 1020 lb steer gain 280 lbs in 73 days? I realize we may not reach that weight but he needs to weigh at least 1250 or gain 230 lbs. I plan to implant him next week. He eats 25 lbs./day and is on free choice high quality hay. Any comments appreciated.

Another question is who has experience with the " Tank " product ? What were your results ?

I'm no expert, so talk to a nutritionist, but here's my 2 cents...

That's not quite 4 lbs. a day. It's doable if you have the genetics to do it. Implant for sure & do it ASAP. Worm him twice between now & then. Slowly cut his hay consumption back... I wouldn't free choice hay for max gain. Watch the cotton seed hulls or beet pulp or any other fillers... limit that stuff. Work him up to 2 lbs. per day of Natural Glo or Max-E Glow (calf manna's version) as a fat supplement... I've seen rapid weight gains with that stuff & I wasn't feeding 2 lbs per day... get the pellets, not the meal... I like it better than the liquid supplements. I'd consider cooking a little barley twice per day in a crock pot. Just make sure that it has time to cool a bit before you feed him. Feed steam flaked corn if you can get it. Get him on bovatec or rumensin. If you can get it, buy some "fresh" fastrack & give him some every few days (everyday if you don't mind the cost) to keep the rumin bugs at optimal level. I'd also consider some yeast for the same reason. If you can, feed the calf 3 times per day. Make gradual changes to the diet... don't change it too quickly. Ask someone more knowledable than myself.

Hope that helps.

RW posted while I was typing... lots of good info & a lot of the same things I typed.

Cowboy · Dec 8, 2008

Hey shortdawg -- believe this or not -- back in the late 90's while the boys were still showing -- w e had a good black sim-angus steer who weighed 1180 just 45 days prior to final weigh in at the fair. NE Missouri -- HOT and humid in late june -- so the odds were bad we'd make much progress.

I had a good finisher ration, lower in corn but pretty good on Barley -- and all I did was add 2 cups of the Manna-Pro Golden Energizer product to the ration. (This was basicly a flavored 99% fat oil).

Not only did we make the goal weight, but we FLEW by it and I was wishing I had slowed him down the last two weeks. He gained 5.3 pounds per day for the last 45 days -- he walked on the scales firth tihng that morning before feeding time at 1418 pounds. I about fell over -- I had guessed him at about 1350 -- it amazed me!

I think they still make that -- called Golden energizer from Manna Pro. There are several products out there about like that -- give it a try -- oh and by the way -- my ration was 60% corn , never any higher than that -- I limited the hay to about 10 pounds though, and kept LOTS of cotton seed hulls in there for fiber and made sure ALL ingredients were as course ground as possible -- there are too many rations that look like hog feed any more!

Good luck pard --

Terry

(PS -- as I was typing this -- another post came in almost to the same end -- small world I guess)

TJ · Dec 8, 2008

Cowboy said:
Hey shortdawg -- believe this or not -- back in the late 90's while the boys were still showing -- w e had a good black sim-angus steer who weighed 1180 just 45 days prior to final weigh in at the fair. NE Missouri -- HOT and humid in late june -- so the odds were bad we'd make much progress.

I had a good finisher ration, lower in corn but pretty good on Barley -- and all I did was add 2 cups of the Manna-Pro Golden Energizer product to the ration. (This was basicly a flavored 99% fat oil).

Not only did we make the goal weight, but we FLEW by it and I was wishing I had slowed him down the last two weeks. He gained 5.3 pounds per day for the last 45 days -- he walked on the scales firth tihng that morning before feeding time at 1418 pounds. I about fell over -- I had guessed him at about 1350 -- it amazed me!

I think they still make that -- called Golden energizer from Manna Pro. There are several products out there about like that -- give it a try -- oh and by the way -- my ration was 60% corn , never any higher than that -- I limited the hay to about 10 pounds though, and kept LOTS of cotton seed hulls in there for fiber and made sure ALL ingredients were as course ground as possible -- there are too many rations that look like hog feed any more!

Good luck pard --

Terry

(PS -- as I was typing this -- another post came in almost to the same end -- small world I guess)

Is the Golden Energizer now called "Manna Pro Max-E Glo"? If not, I may have to research it because it sounds awful good too.

shortdawg · Dec 8, 2008

Attached is the feed mix I use, I think this is approx. 2 tons.

SKF · Dec 8, 2008

Cowboy said:
Hey shortdawg -- believe this or not -- back in the late 90's while the boys were still showing -- w e had a good black sim-angus steer who weighed 1180 just 45 days prior to final weigh in at the fair. NE Missouri -- HOT and humid in late june -- so the odds were bad we'd make much progress.

I had a good finisher ration, lower in corn but pretty good on Barley -- and all I did was add 2 cups of the Manna-Pro Golden Energizer product to the ration. (This was basicly a flavored 99% fat oil).

Not only did we make the goal weight, but we FLEW by it and I was wishing I had slowed him down the last two weeks. He gained 5.3 pounds per day for the last 45 days -- he walked on the scales firth tihng that morning before feeding time at 1418 pounds. I about fell over -- I had guessed him at about 1350 -- it amazed me!

I think they still make that -- called Golden energizer from Manna Pro. There are several products out there about like that -- give it a try -- oh and by the way -- my ration was 60% corn , never any higher than that -- I limited the hay to about 10 pounds though, and kept LOTS of cotton seed hulls in there for fiber and made sure ALL ingredients were as course ground as possible -- there are too many rations that look like hog feed any more!

Good luck pard --

Terry

(PS -- as I was typing this -- another post came in almost to the same end -- small world I guess)

Did the Golden energizer smell like butterscotch? We have used in the past a liquid fat product by Manna Pro that smelled like butterscotch and it worked great. The calves loved and they gained weight like crazy. It's a horse product but all it is, is flavored fat.

Malinda · Dec 8, 2008

Hey Chad,

You have already gotten some very good ideas. Some of this is the same...

My feedlot cattle only get hay every other day. I give them one flake, block, chunk or whatever you would call it in Ga. Once every couple of weeks I use straw instead of hay. So, like the others said, cut down the hay. You are filling him but what you want him to do is eat more grain.

You can get corn oil from the feed mill. Put 1/4 cup on each feeding.

Years ago I used what was called Baby Beef that was a 25% pellet. Now I think Purina makes a 35% pellet. Don't know for sure what they call it. I used to only use it on weaned calves, but that would sure give him a boost.

Be careful about adding too much too quick or changing things too fast. The last thing you want to do is founder him or throw him off feed.

I am a true believer in giving Probios whenever the mood trikes me or a calf looks at me cross-eyed. It wouldn't hurt to give him a few doses.

Good luck. Let us know how it all comes out.

Malinda

cowz · Dec 8, 2008

You have had great advice, but if the liquid fat style supplements make him too "loose", try cooking rolled corn in a crockpot. He may take to the barley better but it really makes a huge difference. Give Mom a break and cook it out in the shop! :

TJ · Dec 8, 2008

cowz said:
You have had great advice, but if the liquid fat style supplements make him too "loose", try cooking rolled corn in a crockpot. He may take to the barley better but it really makes a huge difference. Give Mom a break and cook it out in the shop! :

The pellets that I am talking about don't seem to make them as loose as the liquid fat supplements/oils, which is a big reason why I like them. Also, cowz is correct about cooked corn putting on more weight than the barley. However, I don't think corn will put on that much more. Besides, he's already getting corn in his ration & the Barley will put on a harder finish which will be important if you start feeding 2 lbs. of Natural Glo/Max-E Glo (20% Fat & 13% protien) because he's gonna gain like crazy & he's gonna lay on the fat. I like the way barley puts on cover and barley seems to be better for keeping hair too. Just my opinion though. Again, I am no feed expert.

RE hay reduction/increase grain... as Melinda said take it slow & gradual. 1 flake a days is adequate & some feed even less (like Melinda's expample), but I always liked to feed 2 flakes. Less risk of a digestive upset with 2 flakes & if you cook corn or barely, add 2 lbs. of fat supplement, plus reduce the hay & increase the grain, your calf is going to be gaining a whole lot faster than he was, even with 2 flakes of hay. Also, I like Fastrack better than Probios... better mix of bugs, IMHO. But, Probios is good.

renegade · Dec 8, 2008

max-e-glow is a horse supplement right? Would any brand of stablized rice bran do that or does the max-e-glow have other stuff added?

TJ · Dec 8, 2008

renegade said:
max-e-glow is a horse supplement right? Would any brand of stablized rice bran do that or does the max-e-glow have other stuff added?

Yes, it is marketed for horses. Max-E-Glo has added Vitamin E, but I don't think it has anything else added. I would guess that any stabilized rice bran would work. I've learned that a lb. of rice bran contains the same amount of digestible energy as 1 cup/8 fluid oz. of corn oil.

renegade · Dec 8, 2008

I was in buying grain and they have the meal only but it is the same thing (same company name) but it just says stabilized rice bran and has a pic of a horse thats why I was wondering - same thing and company just not the name brand I guess

TJ · Dec 8, 2008

renegade said:
I was in buying grain and they have the meal only but it is the same thing (same company name) but it just says stabilized rice bran and has a pic of a horse thats why I was wondering - same thing and company just not the name brand I guess

Should be the same thing. I've fed the meal, but they don't eat it as well as the pellets (nuggets). BTW, Nutrecea is the company that provides Manna Pro & ADM their stabilized rice bran.

Cowboy · Dec 8, 2008

To SKF -- yup -- that's the one -- it was flavored to smell like butterscotch and boy was it good stuff. We would have the mills mix it at 5 gallons per 1,000 -- so you folks do the math onwhat the percent was. That was during the entire feeding period, and at the end -- I would top dress some more.

Not to cheap even back inthe 90's , but like everything else guys -- you only get OUT what you put in. Same for cow/calf, horses or whatever, they only perform as well as what they eat. Mine ate the very best there was -- I was never worried or regreted not giving them every chance they had. I used to say that ration of mine - along with Calf Manna and the Green pellets made of Sea Weed - also from Manna Pro -- could grow hair on an Oak Tree in MIssouri - hehehe!

One thing for sure -- if you take care of business and not change them too fast -- they WILL respond and do it FAST!

Best of luck all -- Terry

renegade · Dec 8, 2008

Ya Nutrecea is what it said on the bag and it was like 30 bucks a bag and thats not bad really - but I dont feed a lot of calves. Can you use it on heifers? You have to get them fat to compete around here (I wont get them over fat though cause I want them to breed) How much of the pellet form do you suggest feeding a day

TJ · Dec 8, 2008

I think I get it for less than $25. I've fed it to heifers during the last month or 2 for more bloom, but you could feed it longer. I would feed 1/2 to 1 lb. per day to breeding animals depending upon their size.

shortdawg · Dec 8, 2008

Thanks for all the sugestions !!!!!

renegade · Dec 8, 2008

TJ said:
I think I get it for less than $25. I've fed it to heifers during the last month or 2 for more bloom, but you could feed it longer. I would feed 1/2 to 1 lb. per day to breeding animals depending upon their size.

Thanks, I figure I will give it a try since our first shows are in feb and I feel like they are a little behind on cover so I was going to try about half a pound. Out here in i guess the "show cattle boonies" everything is higher and we have to order almost everything offline lol

Weight gain ?????

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