What do you consider "A sure fire calving ease bull?"

Curious to see what everyone considers one.  Other than multiple years of proven unassisted calves.  I would like to know # of calves and # of years- if you have a standard.

The question arises from our newest calving ease herd sire purchase from a year ago.  HE was purchased to do mainly one thing- make heifers calve easy!

We've had 10 go in the last month- zero assisted, all up nursing while wet, and have plenty of vigor- none were hauled in to the barn to get started- all ran in alongsided cow from pasture.  All but one of the calves fell within the 55-65 lb range- the outliner weighed 47.  We've got another 10 that look to calve in the next week, and we don't expect anything different from them.  All of the calves look like cookie cutters, identical considering their mothers are of variety.  I know we're a long ways off from "sure fire"; but I sure think we're almost getting there!  What do you think?

Sounds like you are on the right path anyway IMO

a jersey, a correinte, a lowline, a miniature hereford

In my opinion there isn't one, the bull is only half of the equation so if your cow is calving ease you're fine, if your cow isn't you're in trouble no matter what you use.

Jill said:

In my opinion there isn't one, the bull is only half of the equation so if your cow is calving ease you're fine, if your cow isn't you're in trouble no matter what you use.

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I disagree Jill.  There are bulls out there that are consistant enough to even go on higher birthweight cows and get along fine.  In my mind above 90-95% unassisted is calving ease to me.  There are so many other factors that cause birth weight (excessive feed, mineral, not enough exercise).  For instance several breeders in my area used an yearling Ali son that I raised and promoted and we have had great luck even on Heat Wave heifers and other very high birthweight heifers.  Every one has been unassisted, vigorous and energetic (largest 74 lbs).  I think it boils down to the right genetics for the bull, physical confirmation and mostly management. 

wildebeast.

"I think it boils down to the right genetics for the bull, physical confirmation and mostly management."
Hollywood27, that is exactly what I'm saying, people put 100% of the + or - on the bull, he is only a part of what goes into calving ease. 

I aree with Jill mostly.  There are a few bulls out there that have proven themselves over the years that can help the equation more than hurt it.  Conformation is more important than his actual birth weight to me, but that is only when I look at the bull.  Consistenly breeding to smaller framed calving ease types will make it difficult to have any bull work on as the cows get bred over and over to become smaller and smaller in the makeup. 

we have had good luck with flashback

I agree that the cow has much more to do with calving ease, than the bull= but it never hurts to have a go to guy that you can count on.  He may not produce a stout show calf most of the time, but you can atleast count on a live, vigorous calf everytime, almost. 

stockridge max factor(angus) is our bull of choice. We have had him collected. his calves are stout, hairy, and have lots of appeal.

Have had great luck with Morgans Direction,  Have used over 300 units.  I have to help one every once in a while, usually  because of abnormal presentation. I did have to pull one the other day, my fault, the maternal grandmother had a Naughty Pine last year that weughed in at 150 pounds.  I should not have kept that hfr., as that cow family has to much bw. Calf  and hfr are fine, haven't taped him yet but he will push 100.  Biggest one I have ever had out of MD.  They usually come early for me as well.

Jill said:

In my opinion there isn't one, the bull is only half of the equation so if your cow is calving ease you're fine, if your cow isn't you're in trouble no matter what you use.

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Jill, I only give the bull a third of the credit in the equation. I've had dramatic changes in birth weight, but they always seem to be bunched together. The only conclusion I can come up with is, plumeting temperature, and\or changes in feedstuff on\or about the beginning of third trimester.

A myth / urban legend.

I am always concerned about people taking the term "heifer bull" WAY TO FAR. A bull to breed heifers needs to have moderate BW and the right shape but the targeted birthweight's don't need to be less that 75 lbs or so. If you need 65 lb or less birthweights than the problem is pooe genetics in the female. There are too many people that take low BW cows and breed them to ultra low BW bulls and then keep those females and do it over again and again. It doesn't take long before there is absolutely NO WAY to make money with that stock.

Be careful.

cattle nut said:

I am always concerned about people taking the term "heifer bull" WAY TO FAR. A bull to breed heifers needs to have moderate BW and the right shape but the targeted birthweight's don't need to be less that 75 lbs or so. If you need 65 lb or less birthweights than the problem is pooe genetics in the female. There are too many people that take low BW cows and breed them to ultra low BW bulls and then keep those females and do it over again and again. It doesn't take long before there is absolutely NO WAY to make money with that stock.

Be careful.

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What if you're breeding the bull to Jerseys?  I doubt one of those could pop out a 75 lb calf!  yes, by continually using low BW bulls, you are going to run into problems, but not most folks do... most breed they're mature cows for big calves, not all, but most

kfacres said:

Curious to see what everyone considers one.  Other than multiple years of proven unassisted calves.    All but one of the calves fell within the 55-65 lb range- the outliner weighed 47. 

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Exactly why I like BIG COWS.  Give me a 56" + hip height, wide hipped, 1800lb cow, and I'll breed even heifers to whatever I need, and won't ever have to pull a calf.  I've always thought if a heifer can't handle a 90 lb calf, I don't want her.  I read a report 10-15 years ago about Calving Ease bulls, and the comparision of small pelvic areas in their offspring.  The point made was the more concentration on small calves, the smaller pelvic measurement of the offspring.  In the long run, this philosophy produces ever increasing calving problems.

If your cows have big bwt's in their pedigree there is no science to it. If you use a low birth weight bull on them thats the best you can do. Its kinda like throwing your shorts against the wall. Sometimes they stick and sometimes they don't. If you have the big birth weight in a cows pedigree it will come back as far as at least 2 generations to haunt you. It can come back 6 generations once in a great while. To hear club calf people knocking extremes(low bwt's) seems a little bit humorus.

More often than not if we would just stay out of the way, most heifers will calve on their own.  People that pull a lot of calves are usually too anxious.  Pick a good proven CE sire for your heifers, check them but assist only as a last resort. 

Oh, and do yourself a favor and look at the bull's Calving EAse Maternal EPD.  You too can breed heifers that calve on their own.

Lecture over.  ;D