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Offline -XBAR-

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #105 on: February 13, 2013, 11:23:08 AM »
Did anybody see the black, stocking legged calf that got 13 or 14th in class 10. I thought he was the best one in there. Wasnt deep enough for this judge, but he had extension and soundness on the champ and reserve. He was better looking too in my opinion, longer necked than both, shouldve been at least 3rd, which makes me sad for the kid missing the sale with such a good steer

I'd give ideal rib shape precidence over extension and soundness in a steer show.  An animal w/ an extended front is generally narrower based which takes away from retail product whereas rib shape is the best indicator of overall capacity.

Well, i said he wasnt deep enough for this judge. I didnt say he wasnt deep enough, he had plenty of spring of rib, and was definitely deep bodied. Just didnt have the extra softness to his flank that causes them to look more like heifers in my opinion. He was a cutability minded steer, not narrow based, had lots of muscle. As for extension, its a sign of faster growing cattle who are more likely to succeed in the feedlot. The short coupled cattle like the champ and reserve take forever to reach weight, they show them older and older because they are slow growing.
[/b] This couldn't be farther from the truth.  Cattle that exhibit excessive extension like is desirable in the show wrong are late maturing, slow growth cattle that have a LONG slightly upward sloping growth curve.  Short coupled cattle are almost always faster maturing thus quicker fnishing. I think your confusing limited growth with late maturity.  They're not taking forever to reach weight, they're done growing.
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Offline chambero

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #106 on: February 13, 2013, 12:26:27 PM »

Has anyone ever showed under him before somewhere else?  I'm curious if this is his typical approach.  I can tell you this much.  If you send a kid to the OSU Livestock Judging Camp, they spend way more one on one time with each kid than what any of the Texas schools do.  And he personally is a real big part of that.  Which surprises me even more after I saw him judge so quickly. 

My daughter has showed under Mr. Johnson at the National Junior Angus Show this past July.  He had an associate place the bottom 5-7 heifers while he was placing the 5-7 he initially sorted.  One of our heifers did better than we had hoped for and one did worse.  Irregardless of our "hopes" I think he placed our heifers correctly.  I feel that he spent enough time with the juniors even though the show started a few hours late due to a terrible storm the prior evening and he may have been under some pressure to keep it moving.

Some here have insinuated that he placed more emphasis on who was showing and their abilities than the animals.  In one of my daughter's classes there was a close placing between my nine year old beginning showman and a finalist from the showmanship contest. My daughter's ANIMAL prevailed not who she was or her showmanship abilites.

I stayed out of this as long as I could.  One of my favorite memories in our short showing experience is when my daughter actually stood second in a class of 2....and she had the biggest smile on her face.....she was having fun regardless of what us adults thought about the placings that day.  I decided then and there I would do my level best never to complain about the judge, our placing, politics, in front of my daughter or other young impressionable juniors.  You see our actions teach our young people sportsmanship or lack thereof. We've won and lost but we've always had fun.  And I think it's more important to keep a positive attitude , have fun and look forward to the next show, than to piss and moan and complain about what is in the past. It is afterall just a cow show.

Here is a picure from the NJAS this summer.  It will undoubtedly go down as one of my alltime favorites. And if you look you can see Mark Johnson in it!!

Thank you for this information on his past pattern at the NJAS.  I hope they don't change judges next year.  I know what to expect from him now.  Hopefuly the word will get to him to spend a little more time on his initial sort.  I got a feeling he knows now.

Offline GONEWEST

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #107 on: February 13, 2013, 02:01:33 PM »
Yes he would have found them, but not because he was playing politics.

Are you saying then that all of these people who say he didn't even look at their cattle are not telling the truth? And if not, how could this guy have found them if he wasn't looking unless he knew what to look for? I am sorry, Robert, you are just a nicer human being than I am when it comes to kids. I have no use for those who treat them poorly. And the only reason I raised the question is because he has judged heifers here before. First off I thought he plain sucked, picking heifers that should have been steers, making excuses for movement in his reasons and secondly it sure seemed every kid that had ever been to a judging camp at OSU did well no matter how good or bad his or her calf was so he's not above reproach as far as I can see.

But even so, it seems to me that the complaints are on the procedures in the show and how that played out in how the animals were judged and not on the judge or his champions. I can't imagine something that prestigious being ran that way.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 02:02:29 PM by GONEWEST »

Offline WJ Farms

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #108 on: February 13, 2013, 03:15:38 PM »
I heard a guy complain last night that Mr. Johnson didnt wear a Cowboy hat. Haha, that's funny!

Its funny you say that, because from what I have heard the reason Dan Hoge doesnt get to judge the Fort Worth steer show is because he doesnt wear a cowboy hat. I have heard people say that he would retire but he wants to judge the Fort Worth steer show because that is probably the only show he hasnt judge that he really really wants too. And people say its because he doesnt wear a cowboy hat. And he even told him he would wear one if he got the chance to judge. But I have seen other people i think that didnt wear cowboy hats and judge

Offline chambero

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #109 on: February 13, 2013, 03:47:23 PM »
I'm stirred up now. 

I saw the same thing everyone else did and he did not spend nearly as much time looking at each kid's calf as most judges do.  Most judges at Fort Worth spend more time on the initial sort.  That's not even a question.  He needs to do that different if there is a next year.

There's more than a little exageration going on for someone to say he flat didn't look at most calves.  You might have just got a glance either on the walk in or on a quick walk around the judge after being set up, but its not accurate to say he didn't look at any calves in the back half of classes.  As I used as an earlier example, the class winner from the class my son was in came from the back end.  I did not watch every class, but I probably saw 3-4 of th exotic classes and he pretty consistent about how he operated.

Other examples: in the immediate area of our stalls, there were what I considered to be half a dozen super calves from various towns.  After the dust settled - only one of those calves didn't place.  I really can't think of any of the "name" calves that have done well under multiple judges all year that didn't place.

As far as playing politics, it would take one heck of a photographic memory to be able to recognize kids when they come in this arena.  He might have figured out he used the Martin kids, but I guarantee you there is no way he could remember very many faces.  To use specific examples:  Mr. Skinner that has answered as part of this post had two calves do very well - Champion Lightweight Exotic and Champion Polled Hereford + I expect some other calves that placed.  I didn't know any of the actual kids that showed those calves and I'd bet every penny I've got the judge didn't either.  He sure as heck doesn't know us, and my son stood right in front of one of the $50K+ Texas Twister calves that sold last spring.  The Champion Angus was shown by a family I grew up showing with and they are very competetive, but not someone that plays politics.  They are thoroughly Aggies to boot! ;)  I don't remember if it was here or on some of the Facebook rants I've seen, but he did have a piece of paper in his hand.  I'd love to hear what was actually on it, but there was no way it was kids numbers.  You can't see the numbers from where he stood when he was pulling calves.

Not so much here but on the FB rants, a lot of the people getting nasty are folks that that drop $10K +/- on calves that that looked real good a year ago.  A bunch of those calves "hit the gate doing 98" because they were old, stale, and way past well done.  Those folks are screaming bloody murder.  Welcome to the other side folks.  We finally had a judge that liked cool-looking, fresher calves that aren't too fat and hadn't had 200 lbs pulled off of them.  Yes - you can spot those a mile a way and he didn't like them and didn't give them a second thought.  Judges have used stale calves in in Fort Worth for forever - even in the lightweight classes.  Rule of them has always been to pull off every pound you possibly can and cross your fingers you don't get reweighed.  When we landed in Class 9 with a September steer I was pretty sure we were dead meat. You usually need June and older calves to get anything done in the heavy classes at FW.

At this level of a show, I don't care if a judge pretends to like my calf but still give it the gate.  Your either in or out and my world has never ended either way.  I have had three calves I've raised off the top of my head in past years that have gotten the gate at FW and gone on to win a class or better at San Antonio or Houston. 

And yes I'm biased.  We did well.  I had three other calves there that didn't.  Each of them got looked at, maybe not very long, but he checked them out.  As bad as I wished they had got pulled, they didn't.  But I don't remember recall raising high holy HE** in years we didn't. 


This is not a poorly run shown.  It has always been my favorite.  Yes its crowwded in the back, but its easily dealt with.  We had a 4th place calf that brought just shy of $10,000.  Their sale has been like that for years.  This isn't a dinky county fair where everyone leaves feeling good.  More often than not you are going to be humbled frustrated and wondering why you keep doing it.  You teach your kids that the world ain't fair but that anything worth doing is really hard.  This show is really hard.  The first words my son spoke to me were "Dad - this feels just as good as winning the Belt Buckle this summer!"  For a 4th place calf!  I manage his expectations and he learned he better be pretty danged good on that halter to get it done.  He had made the sale here before, but not in what I call the big boy classes.  A bunch of you gripe about kids that have everyone else do their work and they just walk in the ring.  That crap don't fly at this show and certainly not with this judge.

You think I give every resume that crosses my desk a thorough reading?  You better catch my eye in a hurry.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 03:53:47 PM by chambero »

Offline soggybottom

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #110 on: February 13, 2013, 04:22:04 PM »
I'm stirred up now. 

I saw the same thing everyone else did and he did not spend nearly as much time looking at each kid's calf as most judges do.  Most judges at Fort Worth spend more time on the initial sort.  That's not even a question.  He needs to do that different if there is a next year.

This is my main issue was the amount of time he spent looking yes you had to catch his eye but if you didnt he seemed to not even double check himself to see if he missed one! I saw one kid in class seven who he missed on the walk in and the showmen did everything he could to make him notice him while standing within 20 feet of the judge and when Johsnon finally did see him you almost could see the confused look on his face of how did I miss that one?

There's more than a little exageration going on for someone to say he flat didn't look at most calves.  You might have just got a glance either on the walk in or on a quick walk around the judge after being set up, but its not accurate to say he didn't look at any calves in the back half of classes.  As I used as an earlier example, the class winner from the class my son was in came from the back end.  I did not watch every class, but I probably saw 3-4 of th exotic classes and he pretty consistent about how he operated.
Other examples: in the immediate area of our stalls, there were what I considered to be half a dozen super calves from various towns.  After the dust settled - only one of those calves didn't place.  I really can't think of any of the "name" calves that have done well under multiple judges all year that didn't place.
of the four classes I saw I can ohnestly tell you that there were calves that I believe he never saw! you can blame it on the kid for not making them selves seen or whatever you like but when a judge follows a calf out of the gate for a good 40-50 feet before pulling him and then once done turns lowers his head and walks back to the gate how can he not miss some calves? I could name a couple of calves that done well that didnt even get pulled but that is pointless as I dont believe he played politics either and that was also class 10 which is always a monster and wouldnt want to have to judge it myself as I would love to have most of the cattle in that class in my barn at any time! One of those was another calf that did really well at the Fall Classic in both rings

As far as playing politics, it would take one heck of a photographic memory to be able to recognize kids when they come in this arena.  He might have figured out he used the Martin kids, but I guarantee you there is no way he could remember very many faces.  To use specific examples:  Mr. Skinner that has answered as part of this post had two calves do very well - Champion Lightweight Exotic and Champion Polled Hereford + I expect some other calves that placed.  I didn't know any of the actual kids that showed those calves and I'd bet every penny I've got the judge didn't either.  He sure as heck doesn't know us, and my son stood right in front of one of the $50K+ Texas Twister calves that sold last spring.  The Champion Angus was shown by a family I grew up showing with and they are very competetive, but not someone that plays politics.  They are thoroughly Aggies to boot! ;)  I don't remember if it was here or on some of the Facebook rants I've seen, but he did have a piece of paper in his hand.  I'd love to hear what was actually on it, but there was no way it was kids numbers.  You can't see the numbers from where he stood when he was pulling calves.

Not so much here but on the FB rants, a lot of the people getting nasty are folks that that drop $10K +/- on calves that that looked real good a year ago.  A bunch of those calves "hit the gate doing 98" because they were old, stale, and way past well done.  Those folks are screaming bloody murder.  Welcome to the other side folks.  We finally had a judge that liked cool-looking, fresher calves that aren't too fat and hadn't had 200 lbs pulled off of them.  Yes - you can spot those a mile a way and he didn't like them and didn't give them a second thought.  Judges have used stale calves in in Fort Worth for forever - even in the lightweight classes.  Rule of them has always been to pull off every pound you possibly can and cross your fingers you don't get reweighed.  When we landed in Class 9 with a September steer I was pretty sure we were dead meat. You usually need June and older calves to get anything done in the heavy classes at FW.

At this level of a show, I don't care if a judge pretends to like my calf but still give it the gate.  Your either in or out and my world has never ended either way.  I have had three calves I've raised off the top of my head in past years that have gotten the gate at FW and gone on to win a class or better at San Antonio or Houston. 

And yes I'm biased.  We did well.  I had three other calves there that didn't.  Each of them got looked at, maybe not very long, but he checked them out.  As bad as I wished they had got pulled, they didn't.  But I don't remember recall raising high holy HE** in years we didn't. 

Again most of the complaints I have seen have not been on the cattle that he used to win with the exception of a few classes but primarily the objection lies with his speed in trying to judge a 1400+ head steer show and only pulling ten head leaving him no other option but to brand some cattle that were unsound cause they were the only ones left in the ring! Someone else said that if the kid is to continue showing until exiting the ring the judge should continue judging those same cattle until they have left! One of my fondest memories of Ft Worth is my first ever experience showing there myself where my calf had gotten away from me and I was at the back of the line going out the gate when the judge pulled my calf. This was even before the justin arena was built. No that calf didnt make the sale that year but that judge made me feel like he had given me the world by that last look before leaving the gate. This year with the exception of only two classes I heard of he never pulled a calf on the walk out and most of the time had his back turned to the kids exiting and was trying to judge the TEN he had pulled, like it or not that is not an exageration and is unacceptable in my opinion!!

This is not a poorly run shown.  It has always been my favorite.  Yes its crowwded in the back, but its easily dealt with.  We had a 4th place calf that brought just shy of $10,000.  Their sale has been like that for years.  This isn't a dinky county fair where everyone leaves feeling good.  More often than not you are going to be humbled frustrated and wondering why you keep doing it.  You teach your kids that the world ain't fair but that anything worth doing is really hard.  This show is really hard.  The first words my son spoke to me were "Dad - this feels just as good as winning the Belt Buckle this summer!"  For a 4th place calf!  I manage his expectations and he learned he better be pretty danged good on that halter to get it done.  He had made the sale here before, but not in what I call the big boy classes.  A bunch of you gripe about kids that have everyone else do their work and they just walk in the ring.  That crap don't fly at this show and certainly not with this judge.

You think I give every resume that crosses my desk a thorough reading?  You better catch my eye in a hurry.

Offline ROMAX

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #111 on: February 13, 2013, 04:43:16 PM »
Is Fort Worth the show that the champs go to the zoo?
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Offline frostback

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #112 on: February 13, 2013, 04:46:29 PM »
Does anyone have a video of one of these 80 head classes? From this year or before.
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Offline chambero

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #113 on: February 13, 2013, 04:58:48 PM »
Yep.  That's my kids greatest hope - that they'll have one win someday and that he'll be saved from the "axe". 

And I guess I should have clarified what has me stirred up.  As Ryan Rash said in his FB post that was reposted on here, we as Texans are making ourselves look really bad to everyone else in the country and making them think we have a terribly run show at Fort Worth.  That is the part that is dead wrong. We ought to be thanking the good lord every day that these shows raise as much money for us at the sales and through the scholarship programs we have as we do.  The volunteers and donors want to be associated with something prestigous and valuable.  When we publicly gripe and whine this much its makes them have second thoughts.  It doesn't hurt anyone but our kids in the long run.  You want to right a private letter to the show asking for changes fine.  If you want to stay home, fine.  But these shows aren't doing anything wrong that warrants a public thrashing veiled under the thin disguise of "transparency".  We are collectively throwing a fit about minor details.  We might like the rules or procedures tweaked to give our kids a kinder/gentler show, but it doesn't warrant this.  If you think that some of this stuff - particularly via Facebook - doesn't get back to Mr. Joe Banker in Fort Worth somehow who just dropped $50K at the sale on 5 or 6 calves, you're very naive.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 05:00:10 PM by chambero »

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #114 on: February 13, 2013, 05:02:44 PM »
No, but you can watch the GC walk all over this skinny kid here as he's getting actioned off.

Cuatro Schauer - Record $230,000 Steer at Fort Worth Stock Show
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Offline Telos

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #115 on: February 13, 2013, 06:11:05 PM »


... And that is one amazing show steer, XBAR. IMO, near perfect and could have won it this year and the last 40 years. Thanks for the video.
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Offline -XBAR-

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #116 on: February 13, 2013, 06:19:06 PM »


... And that is one amazing show steer, XBAR. IMO, near perfect and could have won it this year and the last 40 years. Thanks for the video.

I agree what a great calf.  That length and overall volume is unbelievable.
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Offline GONEWEST

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #117 on: February 13, 2013, 07:15:28 PM »
Yep.  That's my kids greatest hope - that they'll have one win someday and that he'll be saved from the "axe". 

And I guess I should have clarified what has me stirred up.  As Ryan Rash said in his FB post that was reposted on here, we as Texans are making ourselves look really bad to everyone else in the country and making them think we have a terribly run show at Fort Worth.  That is the part that is dead wrong. We ought to be thanking the good lord every day that these shows raise as much money for us at the sales and through the scholarship programs we have as we do.  The volunteers and donors want to be associated with something prestigous and valuable.  When we publicly gripe and whine this much its makes them have second thoughts.  It doesn't hurt anyone but our kids in the long run.  You want to right a private letter to the show asking for changes fine.  If you want to stay home, fine.  But these shows aren't doing anything wrong that warrants a public thrashing veiled under the thin disguise of "transparency".  We are collectively throwing a fit about minor details.  We might like the rules or procedures tweaked to give our kids a kinder/gentler show, but it doesn't warrant this.  If you think that some of this stuff - particularly via Facebook - doesn't get back to Mr. Joe Banker in Fort Worth somehow who just dropped $50K at the sale on 5 or 6 calves, you're very naive.

I think Robert's point is certainly a valid one. Do you believe it's  a dangerous attitude to take that every one should just "take one for the team" and not ever complain about being wronged? Or do you believe things like this and cheating scandals, etc should be avoided at all costs in order not to reflect poorly on "the program."  It's also become fashionable to say that someone who speaks up about getting the short end of the stick is a whiner. First time I was accused of whining was when I asked a trader if he knew that he sold me a free martin heifer. To object to that he deemed me a "whiner."

When it was not cost prohibitive to put your cattle with a professional fitter and travel the country showing all the big open shows we did quite a bit of it. Had a ton of fun and every way that some one could possibly cheat went on. And as an adult, I never cared. I was a big boy playing a big boy game. There were other benefits to having your cattle out on the road where people could see them besides winning. But as to " resume better catch my eye in a hurry" comment, I would say that those resume senders are adults. These are kids. Kids should have a different set of standards.

And I guess I would have to say that any show with 80 animals in a class or no specific order of entry would not be considered to be a well run show to me. All the people who raise the money for the sales and are involved in that obviously do a tremendous job in that aspect. Here we have nothing for a family who spent $37,000 for a steer to show except a little prize money and a plate. And this isn't intended to be anything negative, but there is more money in Atlanta than all of Texas and we have nothing. So that shows what a good job the people there do. It might be wise just to take one for the program when the program is that good.

Offline hntwhitetail

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #118 on: February 13, 2013, 07:59:42 PM »
Was the Schauer steer ever cloned??? 

Offline afhm

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Re: What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
« Reply #119 on: February 13, 2013, 09:15:58 PM »
I have personally known Mark for many years now, he is an excellent teacher and has brightened the minds of many young people. Nevertheless I will agree that he did miss a few calves that should have been pulled or maybe should not have been whatever the case may be. I don't think anybody will argue that at the end of the day the best two calves got slapped. One thing I can tell you is that not many people know that FWSS told Mark that the news crews were going to be there to film at 12:30 and for him to be ready. If people want to complain that they're calf didn't get a look then you can blame upper management. There needs to be a sift so that every Freddy 4-Her to get they're 1100 pound YG 1 calf a look. Wouldn't it be nice if the people who are complaining could spend that 36 hours down in the dirt and pick out they're kind out of a class of 80 without spending an hour doing it.
Off my box now.

Maybe he needs to stick with teaching. I will say that you and your friend (Mark) have about the same respect for kids. Ive never known a respectable person refer to kids that bust there ass on a daily basis and try to learn something through a very good program referred to as (Freddy 4-her).  As a matter of fact, you referring to these kids some of which have competed successfully against those calves that you claim to be the best , as Freddy 4-Her's completely destroys any credibility that you ever had.  You and your excuses are a disgrace to FWSSR, all of the participants, and their families.  As far as the FWSSR told him to get ready for the camera crew at 12:30 thats just another ridiculous unbelievable excuse on your part.  I am guessing that you are another teacher who should truly keep your nose in your own profession, since you have no freaking clue about anything you are professing to know in your statement above.
0)
It is published in the premium book that the grand drive will take place approximately 2pm every year most years it is later than that.  Just like at Ohio State Fair, he was only looking for the one to win it and couldn't care less how many were over looked in the process.

 

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