Ohio1
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Mtnman said:
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What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?
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kobo_ranch
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I drove up to make it in time for the grand drive and showed up about 11AM. I was expecting to catch most all the heavy weight classes and barely made the end of that last class! When I first sat down I thought to myself where are all the great calves? Not sure if a off year or what but the cattle I saw at the tail end of the show weren't in the class of calves it seemed were there the past few years. Don't get me wrong I think there's nothing better looking than a gorgeous black steer... but I have to agree with a few of the others that said some of those steers didn't move very well... even some of the top steers I saw. So wish I could have gotten there sooner!!
IMO a 'show calf' is supposed to be just that. Its ALL of it. Walk, hair, thickness, fitting, all of it. To me a flashy nice walking calf beats those wobbly stiff calves any day. Our county had a couple calves that got branded and I'm happy for them. I do know for a fact though a couple of our best calves (from our County) were overlooked. If what I've heard is true, h should have taken a bit longer to give a look to all the calves walking out the gate. The work and expense all the kids go to even show at Ft Worth deserve that much. He could have taken a little longer and slapped that grand around 3 or 4PM. I did sit one down from the grandpa of the kid that won reserve and he was happy but didn't seem surprised. Think he said that calf came from Wade Rogers up north somewhere.
IMO a 'show calf' is supposed to be just that. Its ALL of it. Walk, hair, thickness, fitting, all of it. To me a flashy nice walking calf beats those wobbly stiff calves any day. Our county had a couple calves that got branded and I'm happy for them. I do know for a fact though a couple of our best calves (from our County) were overlooked. If what I've heard is true, h should have taken a bit longer to give a look to all the calves walking out the gate. The work and expense all the kids go to even show at Ft Worth deserve that much. He could have taken a little longer and slapped that grand around 3 or 4PM. I did sit one down from the grandpa of the kid that won reserve and he was happy but didn't seem surprised. Think he said that calf came from Wade Rogers up north somewhere.
travis214 said:
I am not sure who "WE" is.
I didn't say they shouldn't walk pretty. I said there is no logical reason that it is the most important factor in determining a winner. I said that market animals shouldn't be judged with the same emphasis as breeding animals and I don't believe that in general they are. But I understand the people that are with you in the "WE" category do.
GONEWEST said:Tallcool1 said:
I agree that the steers need to be able to move, it's a good way to determine between two that are close in other areas. But a steer that walks like a cat and isn't finished properly for the day or doesn't have as much product as another is useless as a market animal. These are market animals and it should be about beef production, not how pretty one walks. If you think that an animal that hits its tracks is automatically "sound" or one that doesn't isn't, you are badly mistaken. They just look better doing it. There is a difference between soundness and showring soundness. There are millions of cows in this country that are short strided and their teeth wear out long before their skeletons, tendons and ligaments do. I thought they were looking for the best all around carcass not the one that could walk the prettiest.
As to the these steers having heifer mates :, poor, poor argument. These steers are bred to be terminal and so are their heifer mates. If you keep a terminal bred heifer for a cow you take that risk and deserve what you get from it, good and bad. These steers SHOULD NOT have heifer mates in production in a commercial setting. As long as we pick the type of animals that are being chosen today, it will be difficult to use the same genetics to produce both steers and heifers for the show ring. But the argument that these steers have heifer mates that should go into production is just really, really bad and not logical.
In a beauty contest between two animals that present the most desirable carcass in a pretty package, walking pretty is a good way to determine the best between two. But market animals shouldn't be judged with the same ideals as breeding animals and vice versa, its apples and oranges.
As far as the soundness issue, I think we are kind of on the same track. You went into deeper detail than I did but I believe we make some of the same points. To be clear, I wasn't specifically pointing out the mobility issue of a short stride. I was talking about a general inability to move. Dragging a foot, buckling over on the front end as well as short strided were all issues that were pointed out. Now, as far as cows with no teeth that don't fill their tracks......my point got missed. THAT cow did NOT have the soundness issues that we are talking about when she was 16-18 months old, and we all know she didn't. Sure she isn't as flexible 7 calves later, and I'm fine with that.
Now, as far as the heifer mates rebuttal that you have to my opinion...point well taken. If you believe that Monopoly, Walks Alone, and Heatwave sired cattle are all "terminal" crosses and should not be used as replacement heifers in a commercial herd, then you have an excellent point. If you believe this genetic combination has no place on the production side of a cattle operation, then your point is valid. If you can look at the breeding of these steers and tell me that the thousands of club calf herds that are full of heifer mates to these steers are all wrong, then you have an excellent point.
No.....the heifer mates that are the future donors and are filling up these herds...these are the heifer mates...that could walk. They are the ones that filled their tracks, and didn't drag their feet, or buckle over on their front legs, and they have some offset in their pastern.
Pick fat steers that can walk. The end. That's just my opinion.
And to be clear, I do respect your opinion...I am just not ready to give in to the idea that this breeding HAS to be considered a terminal cross.
soggybottom
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Class three that got missed. And when I say missed I mean he never saw him in the ring. Totally missed him pulled the calf in front of him then turned his head back to the blue tarp and totally overlooked five calves. On the walk out he had his back to them looking at the 10 calves he already picked. At least give it another look cause you can't move on until they exit the ring anyway. Not to say he didn't try on occasion.
Attachments
I was really disappointed in the way the judge did this year. Everyone had heard how he was just picking calves from the front of the line and when they allowed my daughters class to go down the tunnel, it was a mad rush. It was really lucky no one got hurt. We did not have a calf to compete but there were a lot of really good calves that did not get a look because of when they entered the ring.
I've been showing at Fort Worth for a very long time and was taught long ago that you always better be at the front end of a class for a variety of reasons - no matter the judge. If you don't get there, its your fault. It is always a mad dash down the ramp. It was much safer this year because they allowed 1 person to accompany each kid. For years no one could go. Last year you could take an army. I think the makeup pen was managed great.
Literally half the calves in any class at Fort Worth are good enough to be considered to be pulled. There was no drop off in overall quality this year and there was no drop off in the quality of the ones he actually pulled. As always, there are a lot of hurt feelings. Heaven knows I've been on the wrong end of it often enough. Parents/teachers have a real obligation to manage a kids expectations at this show. You have to be really good to have a chance to get lucky. Every year at this show.
This show also weeds out the kids that can really show from the pretenders. Real showmanship is a lot more than getting your calf to stand still. For those griping that your calf didn't get looked at because he was paying attention to the calf in front of you - remember the part about giving yourself plenty of room between your calf and the one in front of you. It's your responsibility to get your calf noticed. That is the one thing my 13-year old son played exactly right. He halted at the curtain and gave himself a 20 ft gap before he led out. I bet I know which calf most of you are griping about on bucking over. It was a lightweight class winner that I'm thinking of. I couldn't tell whether it was skill or not, but that kid never let the judge see it. Sometimes you are better off moving a calf than letting it stand with an issue evident. I don't think Johnson ever saw what some of us saw on that calf. Kudos to the kid.
Mr. Johnson really did things different and I completely understand how that rubs folks the wrong way. After thinking on it, I think his whole approach was to look for his class winner. If you didn't have a calf he considered good enough to threaten for the win, he wasn't interested in you. He would make up his mind at a glance. My opinion on his approach is reinforced by the fact that he pulled first to last. When was the last time a Texas major judge didn't pull last to first? Maybe I'm forgetful, but I think it has been a long time - especially at Fort Worth. He was decisive - maybe too much so - and went and got the ones he liked the best. He didn't leave you wondering what he liked.
Literally half the calves in any class at Fort Worth are good enough to be considered to be pulled. There was no drop off in overall quality this year and there was no drop off in the quality of the ones he actually pulled. As always, there are a lot of hurt feelings. Heaven knows I've been on the wrong end of it often enough. Parents/teachers have a real obligation to manage a kids expectations at this show. You have to be really good to have a chance to get lucky. Every year at this show.
This show also weeds out the kids that can really show from the pretenders. Real showmanship is a lot more than getting your calf to stand still. For those griping that your calf didn't get looked at because he was paying attention to the calf in front of you - remember the part about giving yourself plenty of room between your calf and the one in front of you. It's your responsibility to get your calf noticed. That is the one thing my 13-year old son played exactly right. He halted at the curtain and gave himself a 20 ft gap before he led out. I bet I know which calf most of you are griping about on bucking over. It was a lightweight class winner that I'm thinking of. I couldn't tell whether it was skill or not, but that kid never let the judge see it. Sometimes you are better off moving a calf than letting it stand with an issue evident. I don't think Johnson ever saw what some of us saw on that calf. Kudos to the kid.
Mr. Johnson really did things different and I completely understand how that rubs folks the wrong way. After thinking on it, I think his whole approach was to look for his class winner. If you didn't have a calf he considered good enough to threaten for the win, he wasn't interested in you. He would make up his mind at a glance. My opinion on his approach is reinforced by the fact that he pulled first to last. When was the last time a Texas major judge didn't pull last to first? Maybe I'm forgetful, but I think it has been a long time - especially at Fort Worth. He was decisive - maybe too much so - and went and got the ones he liked the best. He didn't leave you wondering what he liked.
Steer4Caddy
Well-known member
The problem with the way they manage the prep ring and ramp is it results in your needing to be rude, ruthless, and downright mean in most cases if you want to be toward the front. Those are not attributes I'm trying to teach my nieces, nephews, and kids. They need to fix that part of the show.
I visited with a guy that has judged the show and one that probably will and they both agreed with that. They also realize how important each placing calf is and want to get everyone sorted out and give them a good look. They know how iChat that means to the families. Unfortunatel, he didn't leave me with the impression that he cared much about that.
I visited with a guy that has judged the show and one that probably will and they both agreed with that. They also realize how important each placing calf is and want to get everyone sorted out and give them a good look. They know how iChat that means to the families. Unfortunatel, he didn't leave me with the impression that he cared much about that.
horseshoe b said:
I am confused the pics I seen of some champions they were as tight gutted and had no flank so maybe you werent watching the same show......That silver one the lightweight exotic champion was tight gutted no flank and straight fronted!! And dont even get me started on the polled hereford!!!
Bradenh
Well-known member
I am confused the pics I seen of some champions they were as tight gutted and had no flank so maybe you werent watching the same show......That silver one the lightweight exotic champion was tight gutted no flank and straight fronted!! And dont even get me started on the polled hereford!!!
[/quote]
Got something against skinner? (lol)
[/quote]
Got something against skinner? (lol)
DLD
Well-known member
Something that folks from other parts of the world might not be aware of is that the weight breaks at Fort Worth are fairly predictable. There will always be 12 classes of exotics and 3 classes each of everything else. Many people keep records of the breaks of the entire show for years back, and I believe these are available in print and maybe even online. So the weight game is played very intensley - most of these better steers are fed with a particular weight (class) in mind long before the show. You won't find many of those really big, puss gutted ones that many people call soft and deep - rarely does one like that place high, anyway. They're going to appear a little bit tighter flanked because most of the higher placing ones have some weight pulled off of them. It doesn't mean they can't still be deep ribbed, but they may not appear so much in pics because they're not carrying that long term fill that gives that big soft looking lower 1/3.
soggybottom
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- 35
If you are going to judge a Texas major....
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 2013
There are enough people carrying the pitchforks over Ft Worth, that's not what this is. Relative to much of what’s being said, I’m taking the nice approach on this.
Newsflash: I highly doubt he really cares what you guys think.
So, if YOU are going to judge a Texas major…
The process began several years ago when the breeder bought the cows to breed. It continued through the purchase of a bull or semen. When that calf was born, he was dolled up and marketed. The family that showed the steer likely chose him out of quite a few choices and spent several thousand on him. The kid broke him in the school’s pens or the pens his family built. He worked the calf’s hair daily. She fed the calf on a regular schedule and once supplements were taken into account, the family easily put $2,000 in feed into the calf. The family drove to Ft Worth and got hotel rooms for the week. The day of the show, several people spent several hours getting the calf ready for your evaluation of him.
That's not a story about the grand champion or class winners, it's every single calf in the show.
That breeder, that kid, that family, and those ag teachers deserve at least two seconds of your time to look at their hard work.
If you don't have both the physical and mental endurance to give 1,400+ steers at least two seconds of your time over the course of two or three days, you are an absolutely horrible human being for agreeing to do so.
If you are a show manager and you make the choice to use a judge that doesn’t think giving every calf through the ring a fair evaluation is what he's there for, you’re just as bad.
If you are a show manager and decide that your loyalty to a certain weight break format that your facilities are not capable of handling is more important than your responsibility to the kids that enter your show, go jump in that same lake.
In a year when there has been more complaining about a show than I’ve personally ever heard, complaints about the cattle Mark Johnson used have been oddly absent. Nobody (well, almost nobody) is running around yelling that he played politics or that they should have placed higher.
What the complaints HAVE been about are they didn’t even get a look because his attention was elsewhere on the way in. They didn’t run over other kids so they ended up in the back half of the class and were therefore irrelevant. They were never examined while lined up on the wall. They cooked corn for weeks to get a calf just right to the touch only to never actually be touched by the judge. The walk out of the ring was nothing more than a formality.
If you weren't pulled on the initial walk in, whether Johnson saw you or not, you were done.
I don’t care who you are or what your judging team did in Louisville; you owe it to those kids to evaluate every last calf that is put in front of you.
If you cannot do that, do not agree to judge a major.
There are a lot of steers at those big Texas shows. You have to be able to look at one walking into the ring and then turn your attention to the next one without missing 3-4 steers while you turn your back on the line.
If you cannot do that, do not agree to judge a major. If it's the ring managers that keep the pace too fast, it's your job to tell them to slow down.
You are going to miss some on the initial walk because just like everyone else, you are human. If the kids are supposed to keep showing until they leave the ring, you have a responsibility to keep judging until they leave the ring.
If you cannot do that, do not agree to judge a major.
No, this isn’t about us getting snubbed; we don't really raise Ft Worth cattle (you think structure matters to heifer mates? try calving those shaggy monsters in July/August where we live) and didn't even have a calf there. I have no bone to pick about any calf that placed highly or vice versa. Frankly, I’m actually being quite polite and respectful relative to what’s generally being said about the situation after last Thursday and Friday.
Please don’t think this is about a person or the gripe fest that’s currently happening on social media and in barns.
It’s about grown men showing those "God raised a farmer" kids at least the absolute minimum level of respect they deserve for a year of hard work.
If you cannot do that, do not agree to judge a major.
By Jeff
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 2013
There are enough people carrying the pitchforks over Ft Worth, that's not what this is. Relative to much of what’s being said, I’m taking the nice approach on this.
Newsflash: I highly doubt he really cares what you guys think.
So, if YOU are going to judge a Texas major…
The process began several years ago when the breeder bought the cows to breed. It continued through the purchase of a bull or semen. When that calf was born, he was dolled up and marketed. The family that showed the steer likely chose him out of quite a few choices and spent several thousand on him. The kid broke him in the school’s pens or the pens his family built. He worked the calf’s hair daily. She fed the calf on a regular schedule and once supplements were taken into account, the family easily put $2,000 in feed into the calf. The family drove to Ft Worth and got hotel rooms for the week. The day of the show, several people spent several hours getting the calf ready for your evaluation of him.
That's not a story about the grand champion or class winners, it's every single calf in the show.
That breeder, that kid, that family, and those ag teachers deserve at least two seconds of your time to look at their hard work.
If you don't have both the physical and mental endurance to give 1,400+ steers at least two seconds of your time over the course of two or three days, you are an absolutely horrible human being for agreeing to do so.
If you are a show manager and you make the choice to use a judge that doesn’t think giving every calf through the ring a fair evaluation is what he's there for, you’re just as bad.
If you are a show manager and decide that your loyalty to a certain weight break format that your facilities are not capable of handling is more important than your responsibility to the kids that enter your show, go jump in that same lake.
In a year when there has been more complaining about a show than I’ve personally ever heard, complaints about the cattle Mark Johnson used have been oddly absent. Nobody (well, almost nobody) is running around yelling that he played politics or that they should have placed higher.
What the complaints HAVE been about are they didn’t even get a look because his attention was elsewhere on the way in. They didn’t run over other kids so they ended up in the back half of the class and were therefore irrelevant. They were never examined while lined up on the wall. They cooked corn for weeks to get a calf just right to the touch only to never actually be touched by the judge. The walk out of the ring was nothing more than a formality.
If you weren't pulled on the initial walk in, whether Johnson saw you or not, you were done.
I don’t care who you are or what your judging team did in Louisville; you owe it to those kids to evaluate every last calf that is put in front of you.
If you cannot do that, do not agree to judge a major.
There are a lot of steers at those big Texas shows. You have to be able to look at one walking into the ring and then turn your attention to the next one without missing 3-4 steers while you turn your back on the line.
If you cannot do that, do not agree to judge a major. If it's the ring managers that keep the pace too fast, it's your job to tell them to slow down.
You are going to miss some on the initial walk because just like everyone else, you are human. If the kids are supposed to keep showing until they leave the ring, you have a responsibility to keep judging until they leave the ring.
If you cannot do that, do not agree to judge a major.
No, this isn’t about us getting snubbed; we don't really raise Ft Worth cattle (you think structure matters to heifer mates? try calving those shaggy monsters in July/August where we live) and didn't even have a calf there. I have no bone to pick about any calf that placed highly or vice versa. Frankly, I’m actually being quite polite and respectful relative to what’s generally being said about the situation after last Thursday and Friday.
Please don’t think this is about a person or the gripe fest that’s currently happening on social media and in barns.
It’s about grown men showing those "God raised a farmer" kids at least the absolute minimum level of respect they deserve for a year of hard work.
If you cannot do that, do not agree to judge a major.
By Jeff
Show stopper 95 said:
Got something against skinner? (lol)
[/quote]
I have nothing against Skinner I didnt know who raised them or showed them somebody showed me pictures........so the hip on that hereford and that high tail head is normal and thats what a good hip is suppose to look like? Anyways....congratulations to the Skinner family on their accomplishments!!! Regardless what I think they won so there for they have the banners and will make for a good ad and make their sell go really really well!!!!
heatherleblanc
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- Jan 2, 2012
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- 163
soggybottom said:
AMEN
RyanChandler
Well-known member
DLD said:
That's all that won the heifer shows. Why the discrepancy?
Mainevent
Well-known member
Yes he will its a two year contract
