What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?

Herefordgal1982 · Feb 12, 2013

I'm relatively new to showing cattle...it's been interesting to read the reactions to FWSS. I honestly had no idea it was such a cut throat deal with classes that enormous and kids running into each other, etc...

Question, though...its mostly out of curiosity...lots of time and money is put into these show steers. I know a lot of kids themselves put forth the effort to work with these steers, feeding them, grooming them.

The grand and reserve, though...how much is actually done by the 4her? I mean, once they set foot in Fort Worth, who does the work? The parents? The breeder? What about at home? It seems like there are about 10 people or so credited with these champions.

My steers will never be as bulky and thick as these are...I don't get the luxury of having a professional fitter helping me. I'm learning, though...oh, and another thing. Is it okay to ask for advice from a breeder that I don't buy from? I raise my own cattle, but showing them is all new to me...

LLBUX · Feb 12, 2013

Just a thought to avoid the chaos others mention on the ramp, perhaps the steers could be lined up according to date of entry or by lottery pick.
Steer quality would be spread throughout the class and hopefully, all would get a good look.

And best of all, nobody would get hurt.

Show Dad · Feb 12, 2013

DISCLAIMER: I have never showed, animals entered, watched or otherwise observed (i.e. mega-stealth mode via personal cloaking device), in a sober or less than sober state. the FWSS.

Wow, seems the judge did not heed the way things have always been done rule. But just from an outside source it would seem that there needs to be some outside the box thinking applied here.

Just some random thoughts:
Why not look to other non-livestock animal shows and see how they judge/manage large number of entry shows.
Stay away from a panel of judges to judge classes, but it would work for final ring.
The safety thing on the "ramp" just sticks out like a pimple on Sasquatch's nose!
Is there a formal way to give critiques to the management of the show? How responsive is show management to concerns? How do you think show management is handling all this public uproar!
Its hard to see the kids through all the adults in the way.
When it comes to showing at this one, wonder what the judge would have done if one of those kids that didn't get a look would have lead their steer in front him and set it up. Bet he would have felt disrespected. (Hmm!)
I've said this before but it bares repeating; if the judge didn't teach the kids anything, then is the judge worth anything?

JMHO
SD
<alien>

RyanChandler · Feb 12, 2013

fed_champions said:
Did anybody see the black, stocking legged calf that got 13 or 14th in class 10. I thought he was the best one in there. Wasnt deep enough for this judge, but he had extension and soundness on the champ and reserve. He was better looking too in my opinion, longer necked than both, shouldve been at least 3rd, which makes me sad for the kid missing the sale with such a good steer

I'd give ideal rib shape precidence over extension and soundness in a steer show. An animal w/ an extended front is generally narrower based which takes away from retail product whereas rib shape is the best indicator of overall capacity.

SD said:
When it comes to showing at this one, wonder what the judge would have done if one of those kids that didn't get a look would have lead their steer in front him and set it up. Bet he would have felt disrespected. (Hmm!)
I've said this before but it bares repeating; if the judge didn't teach the kids anything, then is the judge worth anything?

JMHO
SD
<alien>

That's more my style. Grab his arm, shake him, somethin. I mean, the bigger problem I see is all these people complaining AFTER the fact. Now I realize Im considerably less tactful than most, but the time to confront injustice isn't after the incident but at the exact moment it takes place! W/ a few words, I think I could have reminded him what was at stake. My bestfriend Gonewest said it perfectly, "these judges have have no accountability." To me, that's an easy fix.

aj · Feb 12, 2013

I heard that the top 6 steers had been aired in the hindquarter. Sounds like it would be worth the effort.

rackranch · Feb 12, 2013

I heard there was nothing but air between your ears and that is why you make comments like this....

aj said:
I heard that the top 6 steers had been aired in the hindquarter. Sounds like it would be worth the effort.

blurytx · Feb 12, 2013

Here are two steers that where sale makers at Fort Worth both are clearly crippled. One was 4th and the other was 10th. One is broke over so bad he cannot put is hoof on the ground. The other show side rear foot, part of the hoof is detached. This thing could barely walk. Both calves where picked in the first twenty in the ring. Anyone could spot these things if you took the time to look! But, Johnson never bothered and cattle like this made the sales an other quality cattle went home. By the way, this is the class that Glover's 35g short was in that stood 7th and Carwile's big dollar short stood 9th. And those to calves looked great!

RyanChandler · Feb 12, 2013

why is that calf's hip 6" higher than his withers?

soggybottom · Feb 12, 2013

chambero said:
He would pull from the back end, but he got distinctly pickier as a class progressed. Again, I think he was ony interested in potential class winners. To get pulled, he had to like one better than what he'd seen before. I'm convinced that was his mindset.

I believe that is part of the problem this year!! If he actually thinks he is good enough to pick each class winner on the walk in with out handling them then maybe he should ask his assistant at OSU how to do it, cause he failed miserably! Once again the largest issue that I can tell most have with the way he handled himself has more to do with the fact he did not see every calf that walked into the ring! I only wish I had videod my daughters class and you could see exactly what I am talking about when he follows one calf for 30-40 feet pulls him then turns puts his head down like hes afraid he is going to trip over his own feet, walks back to the curtain and proceeds while he walked past 5-6 calves.

Bird Cattle · Feb 12, 2013

General respose from many: THAT ONE STUNG!

I nominate" Skeeter" President of Fort Worth Stock Show and Rodeo. Do I have a second?

That was a show where I truly had an out of body experience in the sense "Did that really just happen?"!

fed_champions · Feb 12, 2013

-XBAR- said:
fed_champions said:

Did anybody see the black, stocking legged calf that got 13 or 14th in class 10. I thought he was the best one in there. Wasnt deep enough for this judge, but he had extension and soundness on the champ and reserve. He was better looking too in my opinion, longer necked than both, shouldve been at least 3rd, which makes me sad for the kid missing the sale with such a good steer

Click to expand...

I'd give ideal rib shape precidence over extension and soundness in a steer show. An animal w/ an extended front is generally narrower based which takes away from retail product whereas rib shape is the best indicator of overall capacity.

Well, i said he wasnt deep enough for this judge. I didnt say he wasnt deep enough, he had plenty of spring of rib, and was definitely deep bodied. Just didnt have the extra softness to his flank that causes them to look more like heifers in my opinion. He was a cutability minded steer, not narrow based, had lots of muscle. As for extension, its a sign of faster growing cattle who are more likely to succeed in the feedlot. The short coupled cattle like the champ and reserve take forever to reach weight, they show them older and older because they are slow growing.

judge dj · Feb 12, 2013

This may not be his first show to judge but reading some of these reports from other places, maybe it should be his last for a while! Yes, I was there watching and after the first 25 or 30 calves walked in, he NEVER looked at another calf entering the ring! Yes I had 2 grandsons showing in the same class and one of their steers had beaten the winner in two previous shows. Not to say that winning calf could have been beaten on that day, I just wish the other steers could have at least gotten ONE look, much less even a glance. It would have been nice to at least COMPETE!. I am a judge, as my user name says. If I have a full docket of court cases, would it be fair to hear the first 3 or 4 and just tell everyone else I have made up my mind they are found guilty without hearing them? I don't think so! Everybody deserves the same treatment and opportunities. How can a single judge even try or think he is able to perform the task of judging 75 to 85 steers in just 12 minutes? That was his total time on this class. That is ludicrous! I only hope for the management of FWSS that they were paying him by the hour! It's a shame that so many young boys and girls had to work so hard all year, only to have their hopes and dreams dashed out without even an opportunity to compete. I agree that some sweeping form of change needs to take place. No, I am not a certified cattle judge, but, I don't think I could have done any worse than this yokel did! Maybe he should have been in the rodeo arena with the rest of the clowns. I read he was from OSU, a very revered training ground for judging officials. But, I guess a bad apple has to show up some time. That's it, I have fumed long enough. On To San Angelo this week where I hope, to all that is above, that he is not there!

Bird Cattle · Feb 12, 2013

I would have to agree with ya Fed Champion that was a good rascal.

GONEWEST · Feb 12, 2013

Robert says that ag teachers and county agents have asked forever to have some things changed about the way things are done at Ft. Worth. If that is the case, I would suggest all of you who are complaining here and actually have an interest in at least a show that is SAFER and more respectful to the families participating, to write every show magazine, The Show Box, The Show Circuit, The Show Times, media outlet you can think of. If you can't get a way to contact the show superintendent flood the show office with mail. Pitch a fit.

ZNT · Feb 12, 2013

I know I have already commented on the steer show, but I don't think anything should be taken away from the quality of the show, and the quality of the calves. Personally I do not feel like the judge was way off base on the cattle that he selected. Unless you have been to the show, and walked through the barns, it is really hard to phathom the depth of quality in cattle that are at this show. In most of the exotic classes, you can go probably 5 deep in any class and be VERY competative in any other Major or State Fair throughout the country. And for the most part, nobody is disputing the top cattle of the show. No cattle can be fairly evaluated from a picture, and those that are critical of the pictures need to just make a trip to Ft. Worth next year.

The overwelming concensus is about respect, or lack there of. Respect for the kids, respect for the parents and ag teachers, and everyone else that was involved in helping these kids. One man has created such an uproar, and well deserved I must say, but none of this should take away from one of the most iconic steer shows in the nation. I encourage each and every one of you to plan a trip next year to see it for yourself. I am pretty certain that we a different judge at the helm.

cowman 52 · Feb 12, 2013

You care tom place a friendly wager on that?

Mainevent · Feb 13, 2013

Wager on what? ZNT's statements about top 5 or so being top tier calves at any major state fair? If that's the case it's true.

GONEWEST · Feb 13, 2013

ZNT said:
I know I have already commented on the steer show, but I don't think anything should be taken away from the quality of the show, and the quality of the calves. Personally I do not feel like the judge was way off base on the cattle that he selected. Unless you have been to the show, and walked through the barns, it is really hard to phathom the depth of quality in cattle that are at this show. In most of the exotic classes, you can go probably 5 deep in any class and be VERY competative in any other Major or State Fair throughout the country. And for the most part, nobody is disputing the top cattle of the show. No cattle can be fairly evaluated from a picture, and those that are critical of the pictures need to just make a trip to Ft. Worth next year.

The overwelming concensus is about respect, or lack there of. Respect for the kids, respect for the parents and ag teachers, and everyone else that was involved in helping these kids. One man has created such an uproar, and well deserved I must say, but none of this should take away from one of the most iconic steer shows in the nation. I encourage each and every one of you to plan a trip next year to see it for yourself. I am pretty certain that we a different judge at the helm.

I've had no one answer "if the champion and reserve had been the next to last one entering the ring, would he still have found them?" And if you say yes, then I want to know if it was because he was looking for them.

chambero · Feb 13, 2013

Yes he would have found them, but not because he was playing politics.

sams · Feb 13, 2013

This was posted on Ryan's facebook page, I must say he summed it up pretty well. Maybe we all should sit back and think about what we say sometimes.
Sam Skinner

I have kept quiet over the entire FTW steer show controversy hoping that since the majority of us had to be in SA on Today it would all die down and we would all move on... That has not been the case. Let me state for the record I had 8 steers at FTW and 6 went out the gate and we did have a breed champion and a 3rd place... Did I hope for and want better results of course I did at the same time i am also grateful that 2 of my kids got to be in the sale and humbled 1 of them was in the champion drive. I also won't to say first of all everyone has a right to there opinion and that includes every exhibitor, parent, breeder, fitter and judge and as an American it is our god given right to express those opinions. With that said I know first hand that words are and can be dangerous and deadly ... Until you are on the negative side of the cutting words you never know how effective and detrimental they can be! Nobody in this industry has taken more verbal abuse than i have or my family has for various reasons. I do not believe for one minute that the FTW Stock Show or Dr Johnson wanted any of the exhibitors to leave that show unhappy or upset but as a show manager and a show judge I understand both of those positions are thankless jobs and until you have served in both of those capacities you will never understand the difficulty that is involved in both of those positions. However we are all missing the bigger picture we are fortunate to live in Texas were we have the luxury to have 5 major shows and a state fair... In any other state in the union it is not even a possibility to pack up and go to the next one ! The majority of the livestock show industry looks at the Texas show industry and thinks we are spoiled, ungrateful and entitled and we have done absolutely nothing this week to prove those theory's incorrect and all we have done is diminish the Texas show industry as whole and throw rocks at the only show in Texas that allows us the opportunity to show with hair. The opportunities Texas exhibitors have to show on every level is second to none in the nation. No human being as ever taken on a position as a judge or a authority figure, or official with the goal to do a bad job, hurt kids or make people mad and that certainly wasn't the case last week either.... And nothing that can be said or wrote can change the outcome or the feelings of all involved. All anyone can do is to live to fight another day and be glad we have multiple opportunities in the great state we live in. I just wanted to remind everyone that even tho you may not be satisfied we are still extremely fortunate and we should not belittle, verbally abuse or choose to make detrimental, slanderous or hurtful remarks about any show or judge because in the end it doesn't help anyone or any of the kids we love in the long run!

What do you think of Fort Worth Steer Show?

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