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Author Topic: What ever happened to honest judges  (Read 9304 times)

Offline justintime

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2010, 02:03:39 PM »
Unfortunately, there are just as many " goof ball" judges that come from the so called real world side of the industry. I think the two worst jobs of judging were done by two of the most acclaimed packer buyers in these parts. I had to swallow hard when I saw the steers these two " experts" picked. The females these guys picked were simply terrible. I mean everyone sees these critters a little differently, but this was beyond belief. These men are well known speakers at cattle industry events and are acclaimed for their knowledge about the industry. But when it came to using their eyes and brains to sort classes of live cattle, they could not do it. Without any doubt, the worst two judging jobs I have ever seen. I guess there are good and bad judges of live cattle in all sectors of the industry.
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Offline Jeferin

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2010, 02:41:36 PM »
Let me ask this.. How many of the kids out there pick out there show steer at 600 - 800 lbs and say wow that is very nice steer?

How many say that steer is going to be a nice hanging carcass??? I wouldn't thing many. Most kids want to try and pick the nicest show type steer.

This year at our county fair I had two calves I sold for show steers. One kid fed his well and weighed 1385. The other not so well at feeding his right weighed 1102 (I try to tell him to change the feed for his steer, dad wouldn't listen and it was the nicer steer at the time). They were 7 lbs different when I sold them. Sitting in the barn many people commented on the 1385lbs steer (wow, nice steer, would look good in my freezer). No one said that of the 1102 steer. They were side-by-side in the barn. The 1385 lbs steer was champion crossbred, the 1102 won its class, approx. 10 steers in each class.

Well the moral of the story is the 1102 steer was 3rd in carcass and the 1385 was 11th out of 40 steers.

Offline cowz

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2010, 02:47:48 PM »
You mean at one point in time there were honest judges?

Those would be the ones fresh out of college......before the " I bought a calf from your brother, you owe me bunch" gets ahold.  If in doubt, hire a young judge with a true cattle background.

Interestingly, a large group of people boycotted the largest jackpot show in Colorado this summer over having the worst political judge of all time being hired.  Pretty easy to place the class based on WHO is at halter....or WHO whacks the calf in the butt as they come into the ring.   It was interesting to see who was at halter in place of a 9 year old.  It was so obvious it made me sick!  IT IS TIME FOR A FEW OF THESE GOOD OLD BOYS TO GIVE IT UP.   I'm a little tired of 50 year old 4-Hers.  This is for the kids....not the fitters.....sigh.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 03:01:11 PM by cowz »
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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2010, 04:17:40 PM »
Exactly what rock have you been hiding under cowz?  I know people who actually HIRE people to walk to the ring and take those "oh so important" steps into the ring and tail the calf. Pathetic, but sure effective.
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Offline Steve123

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2010, 04:59:25 PM »
I can't believe that people want to judge. I was cured of that after about 5 shows in my young career and followed to my car a couple of times by parents. If you tell it like it is, people are mad; If you sugar coat it, people are mad; If you make the most obvious pick in the barn, people are mad. I have more people ask my opinion now then when I was judging, and they don't act like they are going to punch you in the face after you give it.

Offline doc-sun

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2010, 05:19:03 PM »
after 40 yrs of raising purebred cattle and showing them and many steers, only 15% of the people showing are affected by this discussion.  the other 85% get beat by selection, high trough disease, & other poor mgmt practices.  they need to spend more time at the barn getting ready for the judge instead of worrying about who  he is and knows.

Offline herfluvr

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2010, 06:14:53 PM »
Here is an interesting thought.  We show horses, beef and hogs only at fair.  I grew up with horses.  Politics?!?!  Been there and done that!  So when son wanted to get into showing beef and hogs-knew NOTHING- had a family member help and we have had some nice success.  We show.  Have shown high end horses around eastern half of the US.  Cattle are something we enjoy and strive to our best at and we don't show for the judge.  That's right.  We show for what we believe is our preference for the breed we are showing.  We try and learn and enjoy the process.  Consistency of work and quality have gotten us far.  People know our animals will be fed well, fitted and will be ready to show.  Don't much care what that person in th epen thinks.  We have won and been beaten with the same heifer we love that will raise son some great calves.  You don't like her?  Who cares.  We do.  We own her and we will probably be back the next year with something like her because that is what WE want in our small herd.  So work hard and be consistent.  People know good stock.  Buyers know who is going to give them the best deal.  We have repeat buyers every year.  Those people that play the politic game.  Go ahead.  And it will catch up to you.  The people they deal with.  They can keep.  Enjoy the process and what the industry has to offer and don't be so concerned with who the judge is for that day.  Show for yourself.

Offline Show Heifer

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2010, 06:39:41 PM »
Amen Herfluver, AMEN!!!
You had tthe right not display your lack of command of the english language. Too bad you have chosen not to. - Brit, senior student

Offline simtal

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2010, 09:52:33 PM »
Showing livestock does have some undesirable siuations but how else do you get kids involved?  Considering most kids dont come from a farm background, its about the only thing going.  You cant take young kids to a plant or a feedyard and expect them to get interested, but it might get them to think about what they want to do. Showing atleast gets the career "spark" going.  I used to think that showing was the only thing that mattered...now I wonder why my folks got me invovled.  They tell me, "look were it got you--you have a career path now".  Showing teaches you many life lessons--many of which taught me what path not to go down.

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Offline aj

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2010, 07:38:32 AM »
Was Joe Lewis a goofball when he went with the first crossbred as champ in Denver(in the early 70's)?  herflvr has a great point. The thing about a showsteer is that it is a terminal deal. If you don't win that pink ribbon you are done. With a heifer calf you are just getting started. If the judge doesn't like her maybe he will like her calf better in a couple years.
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Offline cowz

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2010, 08:58:50 AM »
Exactly what rock have you been hiding under cowz?  I know people who actually HIRE people to walk to the ring and take those "oh so important" steps into the ring and tail the calf. Pathetic, but sure effective.

I really have not been living under a rock.   I just decided to throw a rock yesterday.  That kind of crap used to be much more subtle, and was primarily done at state fairs and at the national level.  

But when it is so blatent that even a 9 year old can say.....oh yeah, Sally is showing my steer today because she buys lambs from the judge.....geez!

My point here is we all need to take a deep breath and remember that at the local grass roots level....jackpots and county fairs.....the original intent was for educating.......Education about how to feed and manage a calf, how to win and lose with grace and dignity, etc.   Sometimes the politics get so thick that we are giving the young ones the wrong education in this cynical old world!   Once upon a time, it was a lot more fun!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 09:04:58 AM by cowz »
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Offline RR#2 Cattle Co

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2010, 09:06:44 AM »
edit...  Showing teaches you many life lessons--many of which taught me what path not to go down.

I have to agree.  It's great to win, but you also don't want to win under every judge.  Better to take satisfaction in knowing the good of your own stock and marketing the ones that stay at home for a profit.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 09:13:02 AM by Glenstory »
Why, yes, I did grow up in a barn.  Thanks for asking.

Offline Shady Lane

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2010, 11:57:39 AM »
Showring politics is nothing new.

Always has been and always will be a factor,

However, call me naieve if you like I think it happens far less than most people assume. The fact of the matter is that no judge is ever going to make everybody in the barn happy. Everybody sees the cattle a little differently and if the cattle were sorted by two different judges on the same day I will garuntee that there will be two different outcomes.

A cattle show is entirely subjective and I find this to be little different than any other aspect in life.

Favouritism is always a factor.

Ever had a job interview? Oftentimes job candiadates may be hired because of a reputation in a particular industry or knowing the right people that might help you out.

Ever sold cattle? A reputable breeder or a marketable prefix or pedigree most often equates to a greater selling price than than that from cattle from a "no name" breeder etc.

It's imporatnt that show commitees select judges that are as impartial as possible,  and my belief that th judges should be picked by the exhibitors, afterall they are the ones that make the show and footing the bill to be there. Most times those that complain about unfair judging are the ones that would place lower in class despite the judge and would still complain anyway. It's one mans oppinion on one day, take it for what it's worth and move on. If you continue to present your cattle to their full potential and improve your breeding program you will do better in time.

If you can't handle that you won't likely be in the business for very long.
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Offline BABYTEX

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2010, 12:16:51 PM »
I will not mention any names put my children went to a small jackpot show in Minnesota near Ortonville and the judge at this show had have of the cattle bought from him and had his farm ear tags on in just about every class and yes we have even bought from him but not this year.  Our animal did well but yes we thought it should have been a step higher but I would have thought when asked to judge that he would have declined judging.  I will say that in almost every class judged his cattle were on top.  In the heifer class we ended up third overall and we felt should have been Reserve Supreme Heifer but we did get his placing at a show a couple weeks later.  Just thought maybe it would have been more ethical to decline judging.

Offline klintdog

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Re: What ever happened to honest judges
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2010, 01:28:21 PM »
We typically take recommendations from our exhibitors for judges they'd like to see, and then put them on a list of names that gets constantly rotated and modified.

Last year at NWSS I sat across the Coliseum from a major breed show that was taking place and watched the bull show. As the judge walked in front of the animals, he reached over and smacked one of the male exhibitors on the butt. Of course, later on this same exhibitor ended up with National Champion Bull. It was disgusting how they didn't even disguise, in the show ring, that they had a relationship. Had I been sitting on the other side I never would ahve seen it though.

 

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