when did judges stop feeling steers

I showed in the 80'a and 90's. Although I mostly showed heifers, I never saw a show where a judge didn't feel the steers for cover...until my kids started showing about 6 years ago.

We live in Northeast MO. I've recently seen two shows in two weeks with two different judges who both got their hands on the steers. I was glad to see this, but it is certainly not the norm in this area.

I've asked two judges recently why they didn't feel the steers. One really couldn't answer my question. The other said he didn't need to because he could just tell without touching them, and he had gotten kicked too many times. This was the same judge who picked a Grand Champion steer with a huge frame, and tons of hair, but even the steer's owner said that he was lacking about 150 pounds. Perhaps the judge would have realized this if he would have felt him??

Do judges feel steers in your area?

Simple,  they don't want Their hands to get dirty

I will say that when I judge I judge off look, too many calves these days being shown are not calm enough for someone to feel of them or at least my view and I hate being kicked by my own cattle so I'm sure not putting myself in a position to be kicked by someone else's. I don't neccarily think it's that they don't want to get their hands dirty I think it's more that a lot of things can be told by viewing the steer from a distance and if you have a close call you can determine by feeling if need be. Makes things easier and faster when judging a class of 10 steers to not feel everyone. Most classes sort on structure, and muscle before fat is even considered anyway.

I handle the steers I judge. If they are too wild by county fair time for me to get my hands on them then they are at a disadvantage.

We just started showing a couple years ago so I can't say when it changed.

Every terminal show we have been to, the judges have handled the steers.  This is actually something that we work on at home.  We make sure they can be handled and not kick anyone. If we have a nervous one, my kids have strict instructions to warn the judge and ask him to stand next to them and approach the steer from the halter and then work their way back. The. Judges appreciate it.

This year we had a judge handle calves at a prospect show. I had never seen this on 9 month old calves. He said that these calves are so hairy that he has to.

I guess if I were judging, is have to handle them. 

I understand that show day is a long day for the judge too, but I'm not necessarily interested in getting the class over faster when one of our kids is in the ring with their steer. As the judge, you take all the time you need.

As the daughter of a sale barn owner and the step-daughter of a cattle buyer and fat cattle feeder, I'm telling you that you can not necessarily tell cover by just looking at the steer. And cover has to be considered in a market class- in addition to structure, etc.

The last three judges (5 years) the judge put his hands on the calves when the class was close, some classes there was no need to, 5 calves that shorted pretty easy as they walked in the ring.
He did get his hands on the calf that made it  to the top of each class.
5 calves in a color class,
Class winning steer a thick made Hereford marked steer with body, width and depth. A flashy hairy steer. Would like to see him move a little more freely off his rear legs (easy class winner )
Second, a short horned steer, finer made steer that lacked the depth and power of the steer ahead of it.
Third place steer, cream colored steer that had more frame and power, than the steer above him, he lacked the body and finish the 2 above had, he needs more time on feed.
The 4th and 5th steers ( red x steers ) what the judge said: both calves are similar in type, the are nice calves in their own right, but lack the power and body of the steers above them, they could go either way but the  calf in 4th has a touch more power that the calf sitting in 5 th.
What I saw, 2 commercial type calves that were taller, lacked width, power and depth. They were slick calves width a little muscle but nothing like the calves ahead of them.
The judge put his hands on the top 2 but only when he had gotten down to his final 2. He did not need to get his hands on the others they had already sorted themselves out.

How many top cattle buyers have you seen handle a steer.It is part of the show.I have handled 100s of steers[and been kicked a time or two] and you can tell where the hair starts and stops and fat cover can also be guesstimated but in reality the smartest judge alive can be fooled.I have also judged many live carcass contests and many times[ usually a CharX ]will not look fat but will grade high choice or prime with minimal cover and have a yield grade of under 2 and will win.Some shows go on retail value per day of age then usually the highest gaining steers that will grade regardless of size will win.What I am saying is it is a show and not a science and anything determined by visual alone can be flawed.In all reality the short bodied ,super hairy cattle,with large rumps with extra bone are not what your true cattle buyers like.We are at a time in the cattle cycle with all time highs and no discounts for heavy cattle.Cattle over 1600#s are not docked and welcomed and I heard a judge comment that 1350 was too big.With$4 corn it makes sense if cattle have the genetics to finish heavier go for it.Too many judges have never fed,raised,or have money in the cattle industry.You don't learn it by reading books or giving reasons in a mirror.Remember it is just a show.

some of the best reasons i've ever heard was simply the word "ok" to the request to buy sight unseen rough looking pregnant cows that look like they need about a week of feeding at the bunk.

Of course cattle buyers don't have the opportunity to feel the cattle that they are purchasing, but they sure get told when the cattle they buy don't turn out as expected when sent to slaughter! They don't always get it right either. I absolutely disagree that you can always tell by sight what is hair and what is cover in some (but perhaps not all) steers. Thanks for all the comments. It does clear some things up.

We had our 4-h show this moring is So IL and our judge didnt walk any cattle or feel them

It is possible to judge if a steer has cover visually, but I am probably old school in this regard, as I really like to handle steers when I judge. What my hands tell me oftentimes changes my thoughts as to what my eyes have told me. especially in very competitive classes. I have oftentimes moved a steer up in class( or down in class) because of the way he handled. In my opinion, if a judge is afraid to get his hands dirty or if he is afraid of being kicked, be should probably not be selected for judging major steer shows.
I think probably 90% of how a class is placed can be done by visual appraisal, but that other 10% can go one way or the other by how the steer handles with the judges hands.

I do agree with everything you said, justintime!

This is a very useful discussion, and I enjoy SP the most when it is educational!  Not all answers are 100% in agreement, but everyone on this post is civil and nobody is spitting on anyone.  I'm old school and prefer for posts to be considerate and respectful of all.  I can take it when people are more direct, but good communicators can make their point without being rude.  I'm not meaning to hijack the post, but this might be a teaching moment?

When I was taught to judge by one of the best, we did not handle breeding cattle, because you can guestimate whether the beast is green or over-fed without touching a heifer or bull.  We were taught to feel steers (fingers together, not separated) between the 12th & 13th rib (is that right?) for fat cover.  Over the point of the shoulder might be another place to evaluate?  We did that on foot and then would follow them to the cooler where the cover was measured.  If you practice feeling and then looking at the carcass, the estimates on foot became reasonably close. 

Unless they are slick sheared, hair can hide some things including lack of finish.  There are clues such as whether it shakes when they walk (white meat--for sure not red meat), but touching gives higher accuracy, if the judge wants to estimate the amount of finish.  I took judging class a long time ago, but we were instructed to have a minimum of .25" to help keep the carcass from drying out.  Fat makes them thicker, but even with $3.50-$4.00 corn, why waste feed? 

I always handle market steers when I judge. Even if it doesn't change where they would have placed if I hadn't handled them, it is still a good practice. If you are that concerned with getting kicked or you get kicked that often then you probably are not being super smart about how you are approaching the animal. I always approach from the front and on same side as exhibitor. I greet the exhibitor and always ask what the steer weighed, that doesn't affect my placing just a way to show interest in the kid. This also gives me a chance to encourage a child who may be nervous or frustrated. I then start at the halter and rub the steer until I get to the 12th rib where I feel for finish. I rarely get kicked, if anything the steer tries to move away. And generally the exhibitor will tell you if their calf is likely to kick. And like was said earlier if a steer isn't calm enough by the time he should be finished then he is at a natural disadvantage.

Watched a fair last week, every market animal was felt by the judge.

Last year we had a judge who wanted them finished.  He felt over the rib and then grabbed the flank too.  I appreciate it when they remind everyone it is a market show and the cattle need to be market ready.

Personally, I really like a fresh appearing, fresh handling steer - usually the two go hand in hand, but it's important not to confuse fresh appearing with being too green.  Sometimes the only way to know for sure is to get your hands on 'em

Here in OK, most of our county shows with premium sales are in late February/early March.  Some judges avoid handling the steers because at that point in time most of them are shedding hair and when you handle them hair comes out by the handful.  Personally I don't care - dead hair needs to go anyway, but apparently some people do.

I agree that most (major show) judges should be able to tell by looking if a steer's fat enough to grade select or not, and many of them feel that's all they need to worry about.  I don't really care if a judge handles every steer in a class - if that's their mindset, then they're not going to use one they don't like the looks of, just because he handles better than one they do like the looks of.  I do think it's important to handle at least the top end - to me it's important enough that it at least needs to become a factor there. 

GoWyo said:

Last year we had a judge who wanted them finished.  He felt over the rib and then grabbed the flank too.  I appreciate it when they remind everyone it is a market show and the cattle need to be market ready.

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A certain once well known judge who always had a tendency to be dramatic got himself kicked (hard, in the, ah, upper inner thigh area...) by a steer I was showing once because he walked up from behind him and grabbed him in the flank.  I'd warned him every time he went to handle him that the steer kicked - he'd already handled him successfully 2 or 3 times (including his flank) by standing beside me and easing into it.  We'd won our class and he was going back and forth between my steer and another for reserve breed champion, and he walked up behind the steer and reached around and grabbed his flank... Needless to say, I didn't have reserve Angus steer that year.