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Author Topic: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?  (Read 11926 times)

Offline SEA

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Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« on: March 24, 2011, 11:38:04 PM »
I am looking for a little help, if some of you could please respond and interject.

In preparation for flushing a "Crossbred Cow", I am analyzing potential Maternal Simmental Sires.  Cow just had her first calf by an Angus bull, unassisted, approx. 70 lbs calf.  She is structurally sound.  Showy phenotype.  Both THF and PHAF.  Sire: Proven Heat Wave son x Dam: Proven Who Made Who Donor.  Awesome front end, shoulder and neck, and hip.  Plenty of muscle and expression of muscle.  Straight top.  Good depth of body, not a "ground sow type".  Black with some chrome.  I do not want to lose and depth of rib or ease of fleshing or add any height.
   
Goal is to make replacement females with the flush, then will breed the cow back clubby.

I would like to use a Maternal yet showy, PB Simmental bull, 1. for the maternal and growth, 2. the ability to raise registerable 1/2 blood Simmi females. I need a proven Simmental bull that has the maternal and growth characteristics of the Simmental breed, yet with a clean neck and front shoulder, good square hip, deep ribbed, strong top, a good rear leg, big foot, and not bald.  I know that is asking allot.  But, who comes closest?

Here is my short list in no certain order, Cut Above "Fat Butt", NLC Upgrade, 3C Ollie, Ebony's Grand Master, Built Right, and 3C Macho.

I know these are proven AI bulls that have a couple calf crops out of them.  Have you seen the offspring out of these Simmental Sires?  What are your thoughts and opinions.  There pluses and minuses.

Thanks, I hope this makes for a good discussion!   (clapping)

Offline husker1

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2011, 07:40:08 AM »
I would say that certainly the most proven of that list would be Macho and Built Right.  However, I think with your requirements and situation, Built Right would be choice #1.

Offline advocate

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2011, 08:03:41 AM »
Built right and macho throw monsters(tall flat gangly) grand masters are either good or ugly I think showy wise your options are fat butt or upgrade I think fat butt is probbably the more consistent of the two

Offline JWW

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2011, 08:19:17 AM »
you need to be careful using Macho on thick ended heavy muscled cattle, my experience has been that they can have structural issues through their hip and hind leg mostly making them real tight and not moving freely smooth. i do like to use macho, just on the right cow which most of the time has some angus in her.


JWW

Offline titan

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2011, 09:04:40 AM »
ya i would probably have to say Macho would be the best.

Offline AAOK

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2011, 11:22:23 AM »

Meyer 734

Offline LN

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 01:36:46 PM »
I'll throw In Dew Time out there. I love my females out of him. Just preg checked them and all 5 conceived to the first AI. He should do everything you want and his progeny have puppy dog dispositions. A growthier version of him is his son SAS Sweet Meat. Have some weaned calves by him and they are performance machines but still have good looks and great dispositions.

Of the bulls you mentioned though, I would probably go with built right.
Why, land is the only thing in the world worth workin'for, worth fightin' for, worth dyin' for, because it's the only thing that lasts.     -Gone With the Wind

Offline lcattleco.

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2011, 02:12:56 PM »
entourage.  Have had 10 or so out of mostly angus cows.  The hiefers are stouter than there moms, good necked and and shaggy haired!!

Offline husker1

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2011, 02:22:19 PM »
Built right and macho throw monsters(tall flat gangly) grand masters are either good or ugly I think showy wise your options are fat butt or upgrade I think fat butt is probbably the more consistent of the two

I would say that I certainly disagree with Built Right throwing monsters.  They may be more average for thickness, but I'm sure that more people think they are too small rather than too large framed...

Offline Big M Show Cattle

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2011, 04:02:02 PM »
You sure can't beat Grand Masters numbers, top 1% on birth weight, weaning weight, yearly weight and milk. Not to many out there with those type of numbers. I have not seen all of his calves of course, so I'm sure there could be some ugly ones. But have seen alot of nice ones. Plus you can buy his female sexed semen for $35 a straw, just ordered some. I am going to give him a shot on a Heat Wave heifer I have, with an average of 55 to 65 birth weight on his calves, not finding anything any smaller with that type of growth, frame and being homo black. Should get a nice club calf moma with HW and Grand Master genetics together.
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Offline firesweepranch

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2011, 04:03:58 PM »
Built right and macho throw monsters(tall flat gangly) grand masters are either good or ugly I think showy wise your options are fat butt or upgrade I think fat butt is probbably the more consistent of the two

I would say that I certainly disagree with Built Right throwing monsters.  They may be more average for thickness, but I'm sure that more people think they are too small rather than too large framed...
I totally agree Husker! Our best cow on the place is a Built Right x Drake cow and she is probably a 5.5 frame! Small for a simmi. I have never seen a tall Built Right. They are just the right size for us. I would suggest Built Right with the kind of cow he is talking about...
Here is our Built Right cow at Nationals with a 90 day old calf on her side, and the cow was three.
God, family, and Simmental cattle;  that's what makes life worth living!

Offline cdncowboy

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2011, 04:33:13 PM »
I've only had a handful but I do like Built Right.  Had the first daughter calve about 10 days ago, and even if its only one I like him a little more now.  Used him on some tighter made chi cross cows, they all grew had enough look to them, thats why I used him more last year.  Sold two steers from him and they were very competitive  as well.  Only thing I haven't liked was trying to get some baldy females and haven't got one yet, but calving seasons not over yet.
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Offline GONEWEST

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2011, 04:49:28 PM »
Built right and macho throw monsters(tall flat gangly) grand masters are either good or ugly I think showy wise your options are fat butt or upgrade I think fat butt is probbably the more consistent of the two

That statement is irresponsible and absurd as well as inaccurate. It's a prime example why you can't base breeding decisions based on information from this or any other internet forum.

Offline simmisandcyclones

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2011, 04:55:42 PM »
I have to disagree with advocate. There is nothing wrong with built rights as far as frame size, birth weight or quality. Macho will not work on clubby genetics, way to straight. What would make you think Upgrade is going to sire show heifers? This bull definetely needs used but producing show heifers is not what he is going to do. He wil sire stout made bulls and heifers with the genetic potential to be donor cows, but NOT SHOW HEIFERS. Fat Butt is not being used as a serious simmental breeder bull. He may prove everyone wrong but I would first try him AI on some cows before going overboard and flushing to him. I saw the  heifer calf out of Fat Butt at Louisville and she was very nice but she was only one calf. Time will tell and anytime you breed a crossbred to a bull of any breed all you can do is cross your fingers and hope for the best.

Offline simmisandcyclones

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Re: Which Is Best Simmi Bull?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2011, 05:03:32 PM »
You sure can't beat Grand Masters numbers, top 1% on birth weight, weaning weight, yearly weight and milk. Not to many out there with those type of numbers. I have not seen all of his calves of course, so I'm sure there could be some ugly ones. But have seen alot of nice ones. Plus you can buy his female sexed semen for $35 a straw, just ordered some. I am going to give him a shot on a Heat Wave heifer I have, with an average of 55 to 65 birth weight on his calves, not finding anything any smaller with that type of growth, frame and being homo black. Should get a nice club calf moma with HW and Grand Master genetics together.

Be very careful using grandmaster on heifers. His numbers have changed signifigantly as they were manufactured in the first place.

 

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