White Shorthorn Bulls

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justintime

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nate53 said:
Highest premium ever paid in Canada on the rail was over $100.  Just curious was this rescent or years ago?

The one I referred to was a few years ago, but there have been several other Shorthorn groups that have rivaled these results, but as far as I have heard the original group still hold the record for the highest premium. After the original set of steers set this record, a group of Shorthorn breeders fed their steers together at Highland Feeders and another group fed at Poundmaker for several years since, and all of these feeding trials produced data that was very impressive. Guess what I'm saying is that the group of steers that achieved the highest premium, have been proven not to be a one shot deal, as several other set of results have proven to the industry, that these cattle offer lots of positive things to the industry. The sale today at Saskatoon saw commercial producers paying premium prices for Shorthorn bulls. And they said it could not happen.... well, it has just started and there will be more and more commercial producers taking a serious look at what Shorthorns can offer them, over the next few years.
 

Okotoks

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Toughie said:
okotoks;  You never said if Kitty Clare's calf was a bull or heifer.  I really like the Clare that is here. Maybe a Prophecy out of Kitty Clare would be a good investment.  I can see a road trip to AB this summer.
Your Clare would go back to Frimley Eclaire the first daughter of Cactus Flat Clare by Ramsholt Red Hot.
Kitty's calf is a red polled 98 lb. bull. Her maternal sister by Mandalong Super Flag had a red polled Prophecy heifer calf.
 

GM

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Okotoks said:
nate53 said:
Highest premium ever paid in Canada on the rail was over $100.  Just curious was this rescent or years ago?
This one was a few years ago but the premium was large, I'd have to look it up. More recently Eionmor Stock Farms has had several groups at the the top of the grid. Which brings us to Our newest INFOMERCIAL
The Eionmor West Country Bull Sale
Saturday April 9,2011
Will it rival the Who's Your Daddy Sale today? Awesome sale, another step on the way to getting Shorthorn bulls out to the commercial herds (clapping) <party> <beer>

The Test Station #1 Bull could be the next great white hope...he looks good and has good numbers...he's polled so the irony wont be too great...Im betting on an above sale average price based on what everyone's been saying about hide color in Canada  http://www.shorthorn.ca/lot1.htm


Peronally, I like #11... http://www.shorthorn.ca/lot11.htm

wish i could be there...thanks for doing a great job promoting shorthorns!!!
 

trevorgreycattleco

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rarebirdz said:
aj said:
If you are shooting for an all red color.....Using a white bull is almost insane. In Canada and the showring cattle is might work. I do appreciate what herds like Lovings and Wakuru have done as far as the solid red color is concerned. It is hard to hit that all red target. I think captain obvious is a result of such selection. Spotted cattle and roans are very economically incorrect where I am. It seems like Canada and where I am are like different planets as far as color's are concerned.
diferent planet is 1 way took at it, CO is a neat bull but he ain't the answer to every question.   the white bulls that started this thread and the bulls that were posted by other users are usful beef animals
Now correct me if I am wrong Shorthorns are red, red white marks, white or roan. 

I dont know of any bull that is the answer to every question. Just good parts to help you build your puzzle is how I see it. Believe it or not, I like to see ANY shorthorn sell good. I wish the Canandian Mafia would come down to the states and do a little persuasive talking to the buyers around here about off colored cattle. I still say its a conspiracy here. Either that or the black angus breed has a army of bushman who blowdart the buyerss before they go to bid.

On a better note, I got to play golf today. 79 with 3 triple bogeys but hey, the weather was good and the birds were singing. Life is good.
 

trevorgreycattleco

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What was the sire/ sires that made up the group of most profitable shorthorns steers ever? That is some useful information. After all this time, you would think that kind of thing would make the shorthorn country. What the hell?
 

Okotoks

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GM said:
Okotoks said:
nate53 said:
Highest premium ever paid in Canada on the rail was over $100.  Just curious was this rescent or years ago?
This one was a few years ago but the premium was large, I'd have to look it up. More recently Eionmor Stock Farms has had several groups at the the top of the grid. Which brings us to Our newest INFOMERCIAL
The Eionmor West Country Bull Sale
Saturday April 9,2011
Will it rival the Who's Your Daddy Sale today? Awesome sale, another step on the way to getting Shorthorn bulls out to the commercial herds (clapping) <party> <beer>
Lot 11 was my pick as well. What a powerful performance bull. His two year old mother was twin herself and look at his performance before and after weanining. As well his 90 lb. birth weight is reasonable.

The Test Station #1 Bull could be the next great white hope...he looks good and has good numbers...he's polled so the irony wont be too great...Im betting on an above sale average price based on what everyone's been saying about hide color in Canada  http://www.shorthorn.ca/lot1.htm


Peronally, I like #11... http://www.shorthorn.ca/lot11.htm

wish i could be there...thanks for doing a great job promoting shorthorns!!!
 

Okotoks

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trevorgreycattleco said:
What was the sire/ sires that made up the group of most profitable shorthorns steers ever? That is some useful information. After all this time, you would think that kind of thing would make the shorthorn country. What the hell?
They were sired by some of Jim Scafe's walking bulls. I don't think he collected many of his bulls. I'm not sure he has registered the last couple of years but there would be some useful cows up there. There are a couple of herds like Schafers that have a lot of Scafe(Misty Hills) breeding.
 

r.n.reed

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Okotoks said:
trevorgreycattleco said:
What was the sire/ sires that made up the group of most profitable shorthorns steers ever? That is some useful information. After all this time, you would think that kind of thing would make the shorthorn country. What the hell?
They were sired by some of Jim Scafe's walking bulls. I don't think he collected many of his bulls. I'm not sure he has registered the last couple of years but there would be some useful cows up there. There are a couple of herds like Schafers that have a lot of Scafe(Misty Hills) breeding.
Thats kind of a vague answer Okotoks,can you elaborate on the breeding?
 

justintime

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r.n.reed said:
Okotoks said:
trevorgreycattleco said:
What was the sire/ sires that made up the group of most profitable shorthorns steers ever? That is some useful information. After all this time, you would think that kind of thing would make the shorthorn country. What the hell?
They were sired by some of Jim Scafe's walking bulls. I don't think he collected many of his bulls. I'm not sure he has registered the last couple of years but there would be some useful cows up there. There are a couple of herds like Schafers that have a lot of Scafe(Misty Hills) breeding.
Thats kind of a vague answer Okotoks,can you elaborate on the breeding?

Jim Scafe used a number of herd bulls from Hoyts, and also used several homebred sons of them. I think he purhcased 2 sets of 8 bulls from Hoyt and some of them really bred well. Some I remember are HC Goliath Max who was a son of Goliath, HS Instant Production  by SRS Instant Replay, HS KING Charles  by TJB King Charles. Instant Production was a super breeding bull, and Jim kept several sons of his to use in his herd,. He also had a bull called Misty Hills Elephant who was sired by Mandalong Super Elephant. This was a very good bull as well, and severalsons of the Elephant bull were also used. There was a number of these steers sired by CHS Royalty as well, as he had been purchaded from Shadybrook .Jim also purchased 4 herdbulls from Sangamon in New York, and he also used several sons oand grandsons of these bulls. Some also were sired b y 4 bulls he purchased from us, that were sired by WF Player and  Millvale Mike's Cujo.
They were running about 30 herd sires at the time as they had over 800 cows in some of the wildest conditions  possible. I remember Jim told me that they couldn't round the cows and calves up in the fall, and whatever came back to the headquarters on their own was what they wintered
 

justintime

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I purchased 8 cows one fall from Misty Hills and as Okotoks said, they were excellent cows and excellent mothers.They had perfect udders, were very fertile, totally sound in their feet and legs and were great mothers. Every one of them worked here. In regards to the conditions this ranch operated in, I think it has to be one of the harshest places I know of. When the herd was turned out in the spring, many of them were not seen again until they came back  to the ranch headquarters in late October. Occasionally, some cows came home in the fall that had not been there the previous winter, so they had survived on their own for a year and a half. Chrissy Scafe ( Jim's daughter) worked for me, and she told stories of cows coming home with huge pieces of flesh gone from grizzly bear attacks. She said there was no way to check the cows as the forest was too thick. She said that the cows had some trails and if you rode horseback through the forest you could be literally 10 feet from a cow and not even see it, in many places. There were some meadows throughout the forest that the cows grazed in, but they also ate a lot of refuse under the trees. This forest reserve was so big that it had no fences and the cows were just turned into it. They could go for miles and miles. Somehow, the cows seemed to know that winter was coming and most of them would find their way back to the ranch headquarters in late October. Their purebred cows were bred at home before they were turned out and they calved in January and February. If they calved later, they were sold as commercial cattle as there was no way to know what bull they were off. ( now they could DNA if they wanted to). Because of a severe problem with scours one year, they moved their calving to late spring and as a result they have gone almost completely commerical. After Jim's wife, Louise, died suddenlyfrom a brain anuerism, they decided to reduce their cows but I think they still have 200-300 cows. They purchased another 2 bulls from us, two years ago. Chrissy Scafe has spent considerable time in Australia and has flushed several of their cows for some people in Australia. I know she has sent embryos there from our old Ready Go herd sire  as well as some from their Elephant son . If I remember correctly I think she shipped about 50 embryos down there when she was working for me.
I remember talking to Jim Scafe, after his steers has do so well in the feedlot, and he said that they had not even sorted out the best ones. They just gathered up the first ones that came home in the fall, and when they had enough to fill a couple of trucks they sent them to the feedlot in Southern Alberta. They also had a small feedlot of  their own several miles from the ranch that was operated by one of their sons and several more were fed there as well.
Jim Scafe was not afraid to try anything. I remember him stopping here and staying overnight when he was driving to New York to get the 4 bulls he had purchased at Sangamon. He was driving a 1962 two ton truck that had probably 500,000 miles or more on it. He had about three spare tires hanging from the truck box, and most people would have thrown them away long ago. He had a few blankets and a basket of food in the truck with him. When he got to our place he was already over 1000 miles from home and he had another 2500 + miles to go. When he left our yard, my dad said" well, I doubt if we will ever see him again. " It was over 2 weeks later when he phoned and asked if he could unlaod his bulls and stay for the night on his trip home. The bulls looked great for having been packed in that truck for several days. They would be considered excellent bulls today. They were moderate and very thick. That old truck took him for many more trips  for several years after that and Chrissy told me that she thought there was over 800,000 miles on it when it was finally parked for good, and it was still the original motor.
 

Okotoks

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r.n.reed said:
Okotoks said:
trevorgreycattleco said:
What was the sire/ sires that made up the group of most profitable shorthorns steers ever? That is some useful information. After all this time, you would think that kind of thing would make the shorthorn country. What the hell?
They were sired by some of Jim Scafe's walking bulls. I don't think he collected many of his bulls. I'm not sure he has registered the last couple of years but there would be some useful cows up there. There are a couple of herds like Schafers that have a lot of Scafe(Misty Hills) breeding.
Thats kind of a vague answer Okotoks,can you elaborate on the breeding?
I really couldn't tell you the exact breeding but JIT has covered some of the sires. Here's one you might find interesting as Jim used a Kenmar bull and at least one son. He also used some Rocker bulls including RB Eagle 117th. He also had at least one Mantua bull, MF Showdown 640. Jim traveled North America to find his bulls and often bought 2 or 3 at a time. He used a lot of US bulls but all none with Maine influence.

MISTY HILLS MURPHY 8X X-M459919-

              HI WAY ROYAL OAK X-M375109- 
      PLEASANT DAWN SEAL 2ND X-M398754-   
              PLEASANT DAWN PRINCESS X-F448410- 
  KENMAR RANSOM 5Z X-M426046-     
              HI WAY PRESIDENT X-M402540- 
      KENMAR MINNIE 22U -F550827-   
            KENMAR MINNIE 4TH -F506609- 
MISTY HILLS MURPHY 8X       
            DEERPARK IMPROVER 2 -[US]3693924- 
      DEER TRAIL GOLIATH -M456769-   
            MAR VEL STYLISH 43 D67 72 X-[US]3610572- 
  MISTY HILLS MISS GOLIATH 15U -F647980-     
            BLUE ROCK ROAN CHIEF -M433657-D 
      MISTY HILLS MARGARET 2ND X-F632876-   
            MISTY HILLS MARGARET X-F612107- 



 

justintime

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The Murphy bull was super easy calving and they could possibly have semen on him yet. I think they bought 5 or 6 Rocker bulls but only 1 lasted for more than one year, as they could not stand up to the harsh conditions. I was very surprised when Jim told me this, as I thought he had got some very good bulls from Rockers
 

Okotoks

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justintime said:
The Murphy bull was super easy calving and they could possibly have semen on him yet. I think they bought 5 or 6 Rocker bulls but only 1 lasted for more than one year, as they could not stand up to the harsh conditions. I was very surprised when Jim told me this, as I thought he had got some very good bulls from Rockers

But the one that lasted RB Eagle 117th was still seeing service at Schafers at 12 years of age!

RB EAGLE 117TH X-M466240-


          WINDHOLME LEADER 480 -[US]3713144- 
      SUTHERLAND LEADER 258 X-[US]3760725-   
          WINDHOLME FRONTINE 239 X-[US]3681583- 
  BYLAND EAGLE F58 X-[US]3807340-     
          C C S HAWK X-[US]3705728- 
      BYLAND AUGUSTA H 69 X-[US]3735794-   
          BYLAND S AUGUSTA X-[US]3666175- 
RB EAGLE 117TH       
          DEERPARK IMPROVER 2 -[US]3693924- 
      RB GUINESS 14TH X-[US]3789046-   
          LAURA MISSIE 49TH X-[US]3730106- 
    RB GENETIC LADY 21ST X-[US]3841661-     
          REXLAINE PROTOTYPE X-[US]3722462- 
    RB GENETIC LADY 5TH X-[US]3799080-   
          BP CHERRY BLOSSOM 81 X-[US]3756781- 
 

r.n.reed

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Thanks guys,that was quite a bit more informative,Interesting that a cattleman operating in that environment would buy bulls from a show herd in New York.The pedigree of Eagle 117 was interesting to me as well especialy in light of the fact that he survived 12 years in that environment.A lot of dual blood and the tail female line was developed here in Illinois.The Charley Jones herd was a small farm herd dispersed in the early 70's I believe.My neighbor  bought several of them.They were straight beef shorthorns but probably 5 plus frame size,thick sound and smooth.They would be valuable cattle today.
 

Sammy

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a serious question for you shorthorn folks as I read with great interest your posts and appreciate the passion that you have for your cattle - we all know of the color bias, particularly in the states, of your breed - let me state that I do appreciate your breed as I have owned Shorthorn cattle in the past, in both commercial and purebred applications - and do know they perform but must face the economic reality of the color bias as a business decision -

with that being said my major question is:  Where do you see your breed in 10 years.  I recognize from the Canadian posts that most of you folks are "seasoned" cattlemen, with your interests in using older genetics and talk about days past.  Are there future generations of cattlemen that will carry on with your own herds or is it as in many ranching areas of the states mostly older cattlemen as the younger folks have left the ranching country for jobs elsewhere.  When you are gone, what then?  Will the breed fade into more hobby farms geared to producing show heifers, as it is to a great extent in the states, or will it somehow flourish and become more of a factor in the industry?
 

Okotoks

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Sammmy said:
a serious question for you shorthorn folks as I read with great interest your posts and appreciate the passion that you have for your cattle - we all know of the color bias, particularly in the states, of your breed - let me state that I do appreciate your breed as I have owned Shorthorn cattle in the past, in both commercial and purebred applications - and do know they perform but must face the economic reality of the color bias as a business decision -

with that being said my major question is:  Where do you see your breed in 10 years.  I recognize from the Canadian posts that most of you folks are "seasoned" cattlemen, with your interests in using older genetics and talk about days past.  Are there future generations of cattlemen that will carry on with your own herds or is it as in many ranching areas of the states mostly older cattlemen as the younger folks have left the ranching country for jobs elsewhere.  When you are gone, what then?  Will the breed fade into more hobby farms geared to producing show heifers, as it is to a great extent in the states, or will it somehow flourish and become more of a factor in the industry?

A dozen years ago the Canadian Shorthorn Association was not in the best of shape. Hard decisions were made to change how we did business. We closed our office and moved it to a new location. It allowed us to reduce our costs and suddenly we had money that could be put into an advertising budget. We were not alone the Angus had been in financial difficulty just before us but had reversed directions and were on a big time roll. The Angus had brought marbling to the forefront and Shorthorn had marbling and tenderness in spades but higher yields than most breeds that marble well. The CSA decided we needed to develop a commercial bull market, the foundation of every successful breed. Shorthorns have always been known for their maternal abilities so there was always a demand for both purebred and commercial females. The trouble was a lot of purebred operations would have to sell those females instead of putting them back in the herd. We decided to focus our ads on marbling, always listing 2 to 3 other desirable traits at the same time. We needed commercial buyers to know that not only could they produce commercial females that there was a strong demand for but also that the steers would do well in the feedlot and on the rail. We already had breeders with this focus so it was not a hard sell. We also did not deny our color but used it to identify ourselves. There had always been a good market for blue, roan or brockle face females. We felt if people started identifying those colors with steers that could marble and produce great carcasses all the better. Just after we got this program up and running BSE hit. Tough as those times were they pushed us to cull heavily and select for animals that would get it done on less. When BSE hit the average age of the Canadian beef farmer was 58 years. I’m sure it has only increased. As with all agriculture fewer young people plan on a future farming. If we can develop and increase the demand for our product hopefully more will choose to be a part of the Shorthorn breed in the future. Obviously we have a long way to go but the demand for Shorthorn bulls is increasing and new people are looking at the breed.
 

Davis Shorthorns

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I personally see this breed making even maybe a small comeback in the future of Americas cattle market.  Especially if more and more producers are retaining ownership on their calves.  If this happens then the common "we get killed at the sale barn" will start to go away and a good carcass is all that matters.  This is where the Shorthorn breed can really try to step it up (if we get it together) and make a difference.  With all of the stories that I hear of how well the shorthorns do in the feedlot they are just that stories.  I LOVE the feed out that the ASA is doing and the DNA markers they are working on.  If producers start to see that the SH influenced cattle are making more money on the rail than their black counterparts (if it happens on a VERY regular basis) then you MIGHT see a small shift to people looking towards a SH bull to put back on their black cows.  But we will still have to get the BW issue under control first and foremost before any kind of change towards that can start to happen on a larger scale.  JMO
 

nate53

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Davis Shorthorns I agree with you on everything but the grading better than the blacks.  Shorthorns might be able to grade better than some blacks, but as far as the best in the angus breed don't think so.  I know of several angus guys who sell on the grid and continuosly get 40 plus percent prime and 100 percent choice on every trailer they sell.  This past year and this spring we were in the 60s and 70 percent prime.  I haven't heard about any shorthorns that have done this, maybe they can?  I started using a shorthorn bull on our angus not to improve quality or yield grade but to add pounds (hybrid vigor), add maternal, docility, and to maintain the quality on the grid.  The few shorthorn and shorthorn x angus calves we have sold on the grid, have led me to believe they can go 100 percent choice easily, as far as the prime, need more cattle sold on the grid to see how high they can go but looks promising!  IMO 
I think the angus and shorthorn breeds can greatly benefit from each other!
 

aj

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I think there is a line of unbeatable carcass(black angus) out there. However they are not the black simmental,black limi's, black gelbviehs, black maines, or black whatever the hell. There are acres and acres of counterfit blacks out there.
 

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