Why doesn't the Shorthorn breed have a epd for stayability.

feed grass said:

does that include docility? 

Around here the wildest, craziest ones-- also tend to be the most problem free, maintenance free, most do-it-your-selfers on the place. 

But I'm not exactly selecting for that trait...

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Hmm, we have the exact same problem around here. Finally convinced husband to get rid of a cow that WILL kill you at calving time (and for about 6 weeks after). She is one of our best cows, raises a great big steer every year. 
We don't do much AIing but when we shop for a herd bull we like to know the age of the dam. It's not a specific EPD number but it gives you a good idea if the cow is worth its salt and if its offspring has the potential to do the same....

Why not just make it as simple as possible.  Like say keep track of all registered daughters out of individual sires, sires with a high percentage of daughters raising calves past 7 years old and raising calves every year, would have a high stayabilty.  Ones that are having 1, 2, or 3 calves and then being culled for any reason would be low on stayability.  It shouldn't have to be in range conditions or non range conditions, it should have to be with actually how long the cow sticks around and raises a calf in a particular environment.  In other words a cow in Indiana that is 10 and has raised calves every year should have a high stayability, just like one that is 10 in the flinthills in Nebraska doing the same thing (just in different environments).  People would just have to have enough sense to use the animals that will excel in their own environment instead of someone elses.
My two cents! ;D

AJ you would have a high stayability but at the same time you haven't really been problem free! ;D  (I couldn't resist)

Point taken Nate. To me thats the cool thing about stayabilty is who even knows what it's selecting for. A free market will decide what a product is. Stayability in a show herd could mean that she sires project heifers like crazy. Some areas like killer cows cuase they keep wolves off their babies some areas don't even have coyotes. To me it knocks out the outliers and extremes. If you have a cowline that has the 130# calf....even if its just once. If it knocks her out of the herd it will show on stayability. The 130# calf probably won a national championship somewhere but the line would evenually show low stayabilty figures. You can lie on a birth weight but the stayability figure is always hanging out there. Its kinda like the maternal calving ease figure I think. You can find a low bwt. bull.....ok......now you check his maternal calving ease number. If its below ave are you really gaining anything? If you have a low bwt. bull with a decent or above average maternal calving ease number you KNOW that either calf shape or birth weight the deal works on the line. To me numbers aren't something to promote you use them to IMPROVE traits. Everbody wants to sell the next great one(and they do it evry year). Numbers if used right will improve traits. Throw it all in a mixer and let god sort them out.

I agree the stayability isn't for a me me right now deal, it's for the next generation almost. It's just a check and balance deal I think. The number 1 factor in a commercial cow operation and something a purebred guy can't screw or cover up. jmo

Kind of off subject but AJ if you feel Shorthorns are not industry relevant and are all about the showring (an opinion just to be clear I have no stake in and do not want to be in on either side) then why do you raise them?

wiseguy said:

I don't know if I am a fan of mandatory reporting on all animals, but I think that it should be mandatory to report on all animals that are registered.

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  (clapping)

nate53 said:

Why not just make it as simple as possible.  Like say keep track of all registered daughters out of individual sires, sires with a high percentage of daughters raising calves past 7 years old and raising calves every year, would have a high stayabilty.  Ones that are having 1, 2, or 3 calves and then being culled for any reason would be low on stayability.  It shouldn't have to be in range conditions or non range conditions, it should have to be with actually how long the cow sticks around and raises a calf in a particular environment.  In other words a cow in Indiana that is 10 and has raised calves every year should have a high stayability, just like one that is 10 in the flinthills in Nebraska doing the same thing (just in different environments).  People would just have to have enough sense to use the animals that will excel in their own environment instead of someone elses.
My two cents! ;D

AJ you would have a high stayability but at the same time you haven't really been problem free! ;D  (I couldn't resist)

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I mostly agree with Nate53 although honestly speaking I think that stayability is a trait that is easy to track without a formula as the online herdbooks it's make it easy to see what the dam,  maternal and paternal grand dam, even great grand dam's have produced (or however far you want to look). It's also easy to see how long a bulls sire lasts.  As soon as an animal enters the commercial herd it is up to the producer to keep in touch with the customer so that it is known if our product was successful the stayability EPD would be affected with these animals leaving a purebred operation as formula's can't account for how long an animal lives if it's new owner doesn't care to submit the data.

I've raised them for 35 years. They are some amazing cattle. Disposition,fertility, maternal traits. But gene pool has become fairly limited. There is no clear cut Shorthorn "carcass" bull. You had Sulivan or who ever.......was monkying around with epd deals......and got a slap on the hand. Perforance data is sacred to me. Its all show ring stuff.TH and PHA are accepted in the breed. The cows that aren't showring orientated weigh 1800 pounds. The black hided myth broke my spirit. I'm 50 sum years old. I'll keep 30 or so purebred shorties around....longer than Sullivan will last. I've got 15 years left to do something fore I die so I am going to concentrate on on the Red Angus-Shorthorn composites. I don't know how relevant they will be in a shrinking bull market but I'm line breeding them. There are some young kids out there have a chance to mold the breed. What will the breed or world look like in 50 years. Just seems like a maternal breed has got to have a stayability epd to be relevent. At least give the next generation a chance. I think I'm gonna cry now. ;D