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Offline linnettejane

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2011, 10:20:00 AM »
a "zipper" knabe?  that just seems plain crazy.............
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Offline Doc

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2011, 10:44:09 AM »
a "zipper" knabe?  that just seems plain crazy.............

Thats what you call the stitches on the side of a cow after she has had a "C" section.
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Offline DakotaCow

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2011, 10:50:21 AM »
there obviously is a market for these cattle, just as there is for heatwave calves, except these cattle are for perhaps a larger commercial market where they are sold for meat not hair and lethal defects.  c-sections seem common over there as many "good" cattle have zippers on them.  perhaps we should have larger heatwave calves and more c-sections, not less and every bull should be a double carrier.  perhaps quadruple carriers raised in a test tube so you could guarantee every calf had at least one copy of th and pha would be the best thing to do and that each one would be sterile by default so nothing could make it to the commercial or purebred market.


Or not.

Offline knabe

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2011, 01:07:30 PM »
100% of the semen that is PHAC and THC, there would be no market?

Offline DakotaCow

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2011, 07:32:25 PM »
Check that, I think its a wonderful idea to increase incidents of c-sections and to have test tube sterile cattle!!!!

Offline Okotoks

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2011, 07:38:22 PM »
In Britain he will make a show steer sire! They actually use Belgium Blues to produce show steers there. Obviously they don't have "Club Calf Bulls" like in North America. It seems they have gone a totally different direction in their steer shows.They also use the Belgium Blues on some of the dairy cows.
We had visitors from Scotland last summer who breed Belgium crosses and sell some of the calves for show steers. They run about 500 cows now and they breed some for the market show competitions where they have had good success.They sell the calves as steers at 6 months for over 3000 pounds.!They have been using Belgium Blue Shorthorn cross cows and Belgium Blue Simmental cross cows bred to Charolais or Limousin bulls to get the type that win over there. Who knew!

Offline Aussie

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2011, 12:22:43 AM »
What I put up as joke has got some good discusion going.  (clapping)  I am not a big fan of Belguim Blues although they do have a place as a terminal sire here on dairy x beef cows with the calves at approx 10 months sold to slaughter and are well sought after. As Okotoks says the UK way (an for that matter here in Australia ) of str showing is more on carcase than looks here is a picture of a winning hfr in the UK

Fighting off incredibly tough competition today in the commercial beef classes  at Clogher Valley Show under judge Scott Watson was an outstanding Aberdeen-Angus x Belgian Blue heifer Black Beauty 1″ from James Alexander, Co Antrim.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 02:18:34 AM by Aussie »

Offline Okotoks

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2011, 10:59:48 PM »
What I put up as joke has got some good discusion going.  (clapping)  I am not a big fan of Belguim Blues although they do have a place as a terminal sire here on dairy x beef cows with the calves at approx 10 months sold to slaughter and are well sought after. As Okotoks says the UK way (an for that matter here in Australia ) of str showing is more on carcase than looks here is a picture of a winning hfr in the UK

Fighting off incredibly tough competition today in the commercial beef classes  at Clogher Valley Show under judge Scott Watson was an outstanding Aberdeen-Angus x Belgian Blue heifer Black Beauty 1″ from James Alexander, Co Antrim.
So would this heifer have been in a market class or be kept for breeding?

Offline Aussie

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2011, 11:09:40 PM »
What I put up as joke has got some good discusion going.  (clapping)  I am not a big fan of Belguim Blues although they do have a place as a terminal sire here on dairy x beef cows with the calves at approx 10 months sold to slaughter and are well sought after. As Okotoks says the UK way (an for that matter here in Australia ) of str showing is more on carcase than looks here is a picture of a winning hfr in the UK

Fighting off incredibly tough competition today in the commercial beef classes  at Clogher Valley Show under judge Scott Watson was an outstanding Aberdeen-Angus x Belgian Blue heifer Black Beauty 1″ from James Alexander, Co Antrim.
So would this heifer have been in a market class or be kept for breeding? I think she was in the market class interesting there was another pic of her with her twin sister both shown
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 11:12:31 PM by Aussie »

Offline oakie

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2011, 06:27:23 PM »
what do people from other countries think/say about our cattle? Mainly the showsteers

Offline vanridge

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2011, 08:07:35 PM »
My late grandfather told me that the muscling on these blues got to the point where the bulls and steers legs would break. They couldn't handle the muscle mass on their own body! In Europe they usually eat their meat leaner and they usually slaughter their cattle younger. Different taste then North Americans. They also have a lot of the Pedmontese there.
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Offline Aussie

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2011, 02:02:20 AM »
what do people from other countries think/say about our cattle? Mainly the showsteers
This is from my point of view and I mainly know about Angus and carcase cattle. For many years Australian Angus breeders have looked to the US for seed stock this however is changing as the US frame size is shrinking. All our steer shows are terminal with the carcase as important as the live animal so we do not have a circuit for steers. Our cattle are shown with a much more natural appearance than in the US. So you have a industry with show steers we often don't understand.
Some things I/we find different
Hair more important than carcase.
Birth weight. It seems 100lbs is small in some circles.
Carriers of defective genes encouraged.
Chasing that show hip to pin and square backend leading to many structure and fertility problems. Are females important ?
Clones of old bulls still much in demand despite many new sires promoted every year. Genetic advancement ?

I realize this does not apply to all and many do well make money and have fun with show steers it is just a very unique business. I also know this is Steer Planet and look forward to the responces.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 02:10:27 AM by Aussie »

Offline Weaverv3

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2011, 07:58:00 AM »
They are increasing the muscle mass but not the frame size. I dont see how they stand. The more moderate blue's without the double gene for muscling appear ver nice. But it seems to me that AI ing some lower quality cows with a blue would and could work?

Offline vanridge

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2011, 10:36:41 AM »
The reason we like to breed for a moderate framed animal at our farm (Canada) is because of the cost to keep these animals. If you put a Simmental and an Angus in a pen after calving, you will be carrying 3 pails of water and 3 pails of feed to the simmental for every 1 pail to the Angus. I still love my simmies, especially the original ones, but we can't afford to keep them. There is of course always a danger that we will get too small, so we have to be careful. They have done studies in dairy cattle where they grouped cows according to frame score, and watched how long they would last. The "ideal" holstein was dead and gone earlier than the "average" cow. The average cow  did produce a litlle less, but they produced a little less milk over a longer period of time with less health problems and there lifetime production ended up higher then the "ideal" cow.  I think if  we have a moderate sized cow that can grow a good calf (weaning weight of calf being 50% of dam's body weight) who can rebreed on first service, we have a good cow that will make money. I enjoy my time here on steer planet but I have to admit I don't understand "show steers". To me its kind of a breed all to itself and does not really reflect the beef business in North America. By saying this I hope I am not offending anyone... I wish that what is in the show ring and what is in the pasture were one and the same.  I wish that I could go to the show and see what wins and say "ok that is what an easy keepin'  hard workin' money maker looks like."  I hope you're all not gonna bite my head off...its just an opinion from someone who still has a lot to learn.  <beer> The carcass evaluations in Australia are they looking for the same thing as in North America or do they prefer less/more marbling etc?
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Offline oakie

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Re: Will this bull make it as a Calf Club Bull ?
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2011, 07:51:56 PM »
what do people from other countries think/say about our cattle? Mainly the showsteers
This is from my point of view and I mainly know about Angus and carcase cattle. For many years Australian Angus breeders have looked to the US for seed stock this however is changing as the US frame size is shrinking. All our steer shows are terminal with the carcase as important as the live animal so we do not have a circuit for steers. Our cattle are shown with a much more natural appearance than in the US. So you have a industry with show steers we often don't understand.
Some things I/we find different
Hair more important than carcase.
Birth weight. It seems 100lbs is small in some circles.
Carriers of defective genes encouraged.
Chasing that show hip to pin and square backend leading to many structure and fertility problems. Are females important ?
Clones of old bulls still much in demand despite many new sires promoted every year. Genetic advancement ?

I realize this does not apply to all and many do well make money and have fun with show steers it is just a very unique business. I also know this is Steer Planet and look forward to the responces.
  I have always been interested in others point of views on the usa's cattle so this is interesting to me. How come they don't like the frame scores decreasing, and what do the calves typically finish at for weight? A typical moderate framed steer who is a choice plus usually finishes between 1250-1350 here. For curiosity sake, how much is a ton of hay going for over there? Just so-so hay not horse hay

 

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